Northern_aqs

With me falling down the 951 rabbit hole 2 years ago, my 87 944s has been driven very little and I'm thinking of moving it along to a new home.

I'm not sure where the market is on The S derivative or where might provide the easiest sales experience (beyond just here and the P site). I would appreciate some suggestions as I finish preparations for listing it.

The particulars:
An 87 with user modifications which make the car a driver versus a collector car. 140k miles, located in Canada since 1992. I'm the fourth owner and have service record back to 1992, not converted to metric speedo.

The belts were done 4 years, 5000 miles ago, the cam pads were done 2 years, 500 miles ago.
All maintenance is up to date and there are no leaks (shocking) and everything works (ac, clock, sunroof).
The car received a new windshield 2 1/2 years ago (due to putting) and was resprayed before I bought the car 5 years ago (it's a reasonable 10 footer).
It has 968 mirrors and door handles (installed when it was painted).
New RE 11's on the back and RE 760's on the front mounted on polished genuine 16 inch Carrera narrow spokes.

It's a bit of a mongrel with the customization but it has been looked after, where do I start?

951Dreams

What are the mods?

Northern_aqs

They're mostly cosmetic ones, 968 mirrors and door handles, rear turbo/S2 diffuser, white faced gauges, a Momo Monte Carlo steering wheel, airbox has been replaced with a K&N mounted where the S2 airbbox's are located.

Enough has has been done that it's not going to be put back to original by anyone and are really just personal taste.

SloMo228

I'd put it around $7-8K, give or take a few grand. Just a rough guess based on the values I'm seeing lately. The S model should add another $1-2K over a regular NA value, and I'm seeing clean, cared-for NAs start to reach into the $5-6K range.

black944 turbo

Is it Nile green? That is a very unusual color and to some may be more desirable. If the interior and exterior is clean, it should be worth at least what Slomo states.

You will have to wait for a buyer that appreciates it though. The only negative I see from your description, is that the belts are 4 years old. That may scare some away.

Northern_aqs

Nile green would be nice, but this car is black on black. I may replace the belts again before selling but they look perfect and tension was still spot on with the 9201 when I checked.

Northern_aqs

I have a set of turbo brakes/spindles and Turbo S sways that I was going to install before I bought my turbo, but I'm thinking they wouldn't really add much in value and I could sell them for more separately.

SloMo228

Yeah, you're usually better off selling parts separately. Modifications don't usually add as much value to the car as they're worth on their own.

NS_Carguy

so as a CDN buyer i will chime in on this . I am not in you area so your market may be different , but i have noticed that the 944s seem to sit and the adds expire .
here is what i am looking at as an active current buyer .
the car looks nice but has 224k kms , over 200k kms is a mental barrier for me . I know it is not 200k miles but still it is a big # on a 30 year old car. (also if i remember correctly the odometer on the us cars rolls over every 99999 miles , can you prove it is 140k miles and not 240k miles ?

with that kind of mileage this late in the summer ( you have 2 maybe 3 months of driving b4 the new owner will have to put it up for the summer ) if you want over $6k cdn the rest of the car better be really nice . you can get drivers for $4000 to $5000 with not much looking.
With the mileage on it , i don't care about the modifications , especially if they are documented , so I know what part to buy if the mod fails.

here are the questions I am asking sellers :
when were the belts changed
when was the last time the water pump was changed
have the motor mounts been changed
has the clutch been changed , if so when and with what ( OEM or after market)
do you have documentation on the repair/maintenance history of the car , and will it come with the car .
you say the car has been resprayed , is it the original colour or something else .
do you have pics of the car before it was sprayed . ( why was it sprayed , was it rusted , was it in an accident ? or was the paint just tired and faded )
do you have a clear title and are there any loans out standing on the car .
has the car ever been in an accident ( it was resprayed so I am suspicious , especially if you can't show me pics of the car b4 it was resprayed ).
how is the interior . ( dash split and cracked , loose **** , after market stereo , seats worn and beat up ect.)
is the DME original ?
can you send me the vin# so i can run a car fax .
does it run and drive as is , what does it need to pass MVI(safety )(this may not apply to you in Ontario , where i am cars have to pass a biannual safety check . People take them to the mechanic the mechanic say you have a big bill to pass and they decide to sell the car . where I am at if the safety is not current and recent you can knock thousands out of the price .

as someone actively looking for a 944 NA these are the questions I need answered . you would be amazed how many 944 owners can't answer these questions .
the documentation is the important thing it will show the history of the car and it must go with the car ( I place a high premium on documentation , and am suspicious of cars that don't have it ) . without documentation I would think the car at this time of year is between $2500 and $3500 cdn , ( depending on how rough the interior is ) . if you documentation is all good and the mileage can be proven to be accurate $4000 to $5000 cdn . if you were selling in may or early June you can toss another $500 to $1000 on to that , from the beginning of august through to September subtract $500 to $1000 , in October drop another $500 off the price .
just my 2 cents worth , but that is where my mind would go if I saw the car on kijiji with the info you gave in the original post .
I will add the caveat that I am not an owner of a Porsche yet , I am in the process of looking. I had car fever this spring and the only reason I didn't buy one was the nightmare schedule i had at the time , there was just no way to get an afternoon to go look . in hind sight I am glad I waited , the asking prices of the cars I wanted to go look at has dropped and they are ALL still available , plus there are a bunch more on the market as well .

RJ80

As a previous 944 S2 owner, the trouble with these 944s and their current market positioning is that it doesn't take a whole lot of maintenance at a shop before you're underwater financially on the car.

For that reason, buyers want cars that are fully current on service -- but they still only want to pay the deflated value of a needy car, expecting the seller to just eat the maintenance costs.

All that said, I would put the value of a clean, needs virtually nothing, low-100k mile 944S at around $8k. My very clean '89 S2 in silver on linen, 128k miles, fresh clutch, brake rotors and pads, Konis, full belt service including pulleys, chain pads, tensioner, Ftech DME and freshly charged A/C sold for $15,750 earlier this year, for what its worth, and included the original Blaupunkt, owners manuals and full service records from new. All the car needed was motor mounts which will probably cost the new owner a grand in parts and labor at his local Porsche specialist.

Northern_aqs

Without clogging up this and turning it into a for sale thread, I'll answer a few of the questions above. It's interesting to me that the light we hold a $6-7k car to is the same as a $30-40k car or a newer enthusiast car. I know before I purchased each of my P-cars, I had a very similar list, but the reality involved with a 30 year old car really made me adjust my expectations where budget intersected with available cars. I was shopping for a driver where I wanted best condition prioritizing maintenance versus originality.
I think you'll be waiting quite a while for a car that doesn't compromise one or two of the originality/maintenance history/price triangle when you're shopping for sub $10k 30 year old german sports cars.

With respect to my car, I know I could sell it immediately for your $4000-5000 estimate, as there are not many cars this age without maintenance or condition stories. The decision comes down to how long am I willing to wait on selling a fourth car.

My car has paper records from 1992 to current with almost everything that's been done to the car from both a maintenance and improvement standpoint. The only exceptions being the belts, rollers and water pump and alternator done by myself when I initially purchased the car. Significant repair items over the years include motor mounts (OEM) done after I purchased the car, the head was redone in the early 2000's while replacing a head gasket, the clutch was done in the late 1990's. The car is turn-key and drive anywhere. With respect to mileage verification, I have the maintenance records that indicate that mileage is as shown. Condition and maintenance usually have a large impact on how tired a drive train is with these cars. I did a leak down test shortly after purchase and results were within 2% across all cylinders, would that reassure a purchaser cross shopping 10 year old Miatas? Probably not, but even 150k miles in a 30 year old car is only 5k per year.

I don't have before and after pictures from a mid-90's respray but there was no record of collision when I bought the car. The car was painted when the previous owner changed the mirrors and door handles to 968 items in the same original colour listed on the COA.

I suspect that the value of these cars are going to continue to climb at a very slow rate as not enough people see the difference in the 16v cars versus the NA cars. It's substantial to some and these really are wonderful long distance grand touring cars. Values are pretty close over all to what I imagined and I guess we'll see what happens when I list it soon.

Northern_aqs

Oh, and I forgot to add, even US cars show 6 digits on the odometer plus 10ths of miles.

RJ80

I agree with a lot of this, actually. Another part of the puzzle is that 944 prices attract market bottom-feeders and bargain hunters. I don't mean that in a derogatory way, but many 944 shoppers are people with $5k to spend and $5k only. If anything goes wrong with the car (and it will), they won't have the cash to fix it. That's why you see so many projects sitting on Craigslist.

People don't understand that keeping a 944 properly serviced will cost you just as much (more in some cases) as a newer 911, but the car will bring you very little of the speed and cache.

And yes -- most people don't "get" the 16-valve cars. The Turbos are fairly well respected, but people just aren't educated on S and S2 models. They also don't realize what a huge step forward the S2 really was over previous naturally-aspirated cars, including the S. My S2 was an excellent road tripper -- the torque made passing easy, it was comfortable and quiet and of course lots of fun to drive.

And then there's the crossover in used first-gen Boxster pricing to further complicate things. When a 250-hp, '02 Boxster S with 50k miles is a $12k car, it's tough for many to justify an '80s 180hp, 944 S with double the miles for just a few grand less. Yes, they're different cars and there's an argument to be made for the better build quality of the 944, but most casual car enthusiasts would rather open their garage door and see a Boxster sitting there, I think. Same holds true with a 944 Turbo or 996-series 911 -- both are under $20k and will cost about the same to maintain, but I'd guess the vast majority will choose the 996 every time. Porsches to many are just about the cool factor.