Dyno - 447 RWHP on CIS
05-10-2006, 10:46 AM
#121
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So I pose this question again. I know it is old hat, but I truly want to do some modifications to my car to give it a 4-500 Hp range on as many stock components as possible, only changing out the components that would not make this build a true success in the quality and longevity area!
I currently have the following on 3.3:
Headers
Custon Exhaust
K27 Turbo
Andial Fuel Enrichment
Upgraded cams
Euro Fuel Head
Andial Intercooler
Compression @ 8:1
No other modifications have been done. What would be the next step to get close to my goals without breaking the bank? I.E. - EFI and a total rebuild!
I currently have the following on 3.3:
Headers
Custon Exhaust
K27 Turbo
Andial Fuel Enrichment
Upgraded cams
Euro Fuel Head
Andial Intercooler
Compression @ 8:1
No other modifications have been done. What would be the next step to get close to my goals without breaking the bank? I.E. - EFI and a total rebuild!
05-10-2006, 01:22 PM
#124
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Originally Posted by jimculp
Can you explain why a knock sensor would not work on a 930 motor Nathan? I have'nt heard this before.
It seems the tuners that offer help and advice here prefer to tune the car themselves than rely on a knock sensor, makes sense to me.
Maybe the chain setup could be modified so it didn't make so much noise ?
Nobody here has ever spoke about it to my knowledge.
What's your view then Simon ?
Correct me if I am wrong guys.
05-10-2006, 03:20 PM
#126
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Here is a response from Micke Svens about his 930 engines.
Hi, Lincoln.
There is 15 years of develompent behind that power, the engine runs safe up to 630hp with 11,9 in AFR it runs quite rich in the midrange when you have full trottle in the dyno when the engine is in the car so is it better because the engine revs up faster, if you are interested so can you call me on 0046 8 7784949 so can i maybe help you if you are interested, how did you find me? talk to you soon.
Sincerely.
Micke Svens.
Hi, Lincoln.
There is 15 years of develompent behind that power, the engine runs safe up to 630hp with 11,9 in AFR it runs quite rich in the midrange when you have full trottle in the dyno when the engine is in the car so is it better because the engine revs up faster, if you are interested so can you call me on 0046 8 7784949 so can i maybe help you if you are interested, how did you find me? talk to you soon.
Sincerely.
Micke Svens.
05-10-2006, 04:07 PM
#127
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Originally Posted by schnele
Here is a response from Micke Svens about his 930 engines.
Hi, Lincoln.
There is 15 years of develompent behind that power, the engine runs safe up to 630hp with 11,9 in AFR it runs quite rich in the midrange when you have full trottle in the dyno when the engine is in the car so is it better because the engine revs up faster, if you are interested so can you call me on 0046 8 7784949 so can i maybe help you if you are interested, how did you find me? talk to you soon.
Sincerely.
Micke Svens.
Hi, Lincoln.
There is 15 years of develompent behind that power, the engine runs safe up to 630hp with 11,9 in AFR it runs quite rich in the midrange when you have full trottle in the dyno when the engine is in the car so is it better because the engine revs up faster, if you are interested so can you call me on 0046 8 7784949 so can i maybe help you if you are interested, how did you find me? talk to you soon.
Sincerely.
Micke Svens.
05-10-2006, 11:18 PM
#129
Nathan,
The system I run allows the programmer to set the threshold for noise. Anything above that the ECU will pull timing as it thinks its knock. This sort of control is very typical. In the usual setup, the engine is run up into the max torque RPM's and the system adjusted to just below or at this level. Then any noise detected above this threshold will be considered knock. You need to be careful setting this level too high. Knowledge of these engines and their characteristics is always helpful.
"There is 15 years of develompent behind that power, the engine runs safe up to 630hp with 11,9 in AFR it runs quite rich in the midrange when you have full trottle in the dyno when the engine is in the car so is it better because the engine revs up faster, if you are interested so can you call me on 0046 8 7784949 so can i maybe help you if you are interested, how did you find me? talk to you soon"
Trying to understand, but that sounds like the "company line."
Lots of words and no information. Don't expect to hear the secrets. Why should he? But at least some reason as to why he's the only one in the world to achieve such numbers. 15 years is no reason. what the hell has everyone else been doing? Sleeping!!
One thought I had, people in that part of the world can make a man fly in a sleigh on one night, all over the world and he even comes to my house. If they can do that, then these numbers must have been real easy to achieve. Thats my take on it. I'm happy with that, and I'm a believer. You know, if you stop believeing, he stops coming. I don't want that.
The system I run allows the programmer to set the threshold for noise. Anything above that the ECU will pull timing as it thinks its knock. This sort of control is very typical. In the usual setup, the engine is run up into the max torque RPM's and the system adjusted to just below or at this level. Then any noise detected above this threshold will be considered knock. You need to be careful setting this level too high. Knowledge of these engines and their characteristics is always helpful.
"There is 15 years of develompent behind that power, the engine runs safe up to 630hp with 11,9 in AFR it runs quite rich in the midrange when you have full trottle in the dyno when the engine is in the car so is it better because the engine revs up faster, if you are interested so can you call me on 0046 8 7784949 so can i maybe help you if you are interested, how did you find me? talk to you soon"
Trying to understand, but that sounds like the "company line."
Lots of words and no information. Don't expect to hear the secrets. Why should he? But at least some reason as to why he's the only one in the world to achieve such numbers. 15 years is no reason. what the hell has everyone else been doing? Sleeping!!
One thought I had, people in that part of the world can make a man fly in a sleigh on one night, all over the world and he even comes to my house. If they can do that, then these numbers must have been real easy to achieve. Thats my take on it. I'm happy with that, and I'm a believer. You know, if you stop believeing, he stops coming. I don't want that.
05-11-2006, 12:28 AM
#130
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To be honest, I do not know the HP the car is running. I know it isnt in the 400 range just by driving my friends who does run in the 400 range. The butt meter! I want reliability and a modest HP!
05-11-2006, 04:10 AM
#131
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Originally Posted by SoFast
To be honest, I do not know the HP the car is running. I know it isnt in the 400 range just by driving my friends who does run in the 400 range. The butt meter! I want reliability and a modest HP!
05-11-2006, 01:35 PM
#132
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Originally Posted by m42racer
Nathan,
The system I run allows the programmer to set the threshold for noise. Anything above that the ECU will pull timing as it thinks its knock. This sort of control is very typical. In the usual setup, the engine is run up into the max torque RPM's and the system adjusted to just below or at this level. Then any noise detected above this threshold will be considered knock. You need to be careful setting this level too high. Knowledge of these engines and their characteristics is always helpful.
The system I run allows the programmer to set the threshold for noise. Anything above that the ECU will pull timing as it thinks its knock. This sort of control is very typical. In the usual setup, the engine is run up into the max torque RPM's and the system adjusted to just below or at this level. Then any noise detected above this threshold will be considered knock. You need to be careful setting this level too high. Knowledge of these engines and their characteristics is always helpful.
I would still feel I wouldn't want to use the knock sensor to tune the car myself or let the ecu tune the car for maximum efficiency.
I would be concerned that there would be some minor detonation that is eating away my engine that was being drowned out by the chains that the knock sensor could not hear/detect. I guess it would be useful for a little extra peace of mind if there was some medium detonation occuring that of course the driver of the car could never detect.
But surely if the car was tuned on a rolling road by someone who knew what they are doing unless there is a mechanical failure or bad fuel then the knock sensor seems to be excess clutter and soemthing else to go wrong ?
SoFast,
What headers are you using ?
05-11-2006, 03:13 PM
#134
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Originally Posted by nathanUK '81 930 G50
Thanks for that info Simon.
I would still feel I wouldn't want to use the knock sensor to tune the car myself or let the ecu tune the car for maximum efficiency.
I would be concerned that there would be some minor detonation that is eating away my engine that was being drowned out by the chains that the knock sensor could not hear/detect. I guess it would be useful for a little extra peace of mind if there was some medium detonation occuring that of course the driver of the car could never detect.
But surely if the car was tuned on a rolling road by someone who knew what they are doing unless there is a mechanical failure or bad fuel then the knock sensor seems to be excess clutter and soemthing else to go wrong ?
SoFast,
What headers are you using ?
I would still feel I wouldn't want to use the knock sensor to tune the car myself or let the ecu tune the car for maximum efficiency.
I would be concerned that there would be some minor detonation that is eating away my engine that was being drowned out by the chains that the knock sensor could not hear/detect. I guess it would be useful for a little extra peace of mind if there was some medium detonation occuring that of course the driver of the car could never detect.
But surely if the car was tuned on a rolling road by someone who knew what they are doing unless there is a mechanical failure or bad fuel then the knock sensor seems to be excess clutter and soemthing else to go wrong ?
SoFast,
What headers are you using ?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...0&pagenumber=2
05-11-2006, 03:36 PM
#135
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Thread Starter
For those interested in knock sensing and control, you should check out J&S Electronics here: http://www.jandssafeguard.com/ I understand Link Electronics also makes a system that has been successful.
I know of several cars around here that use the J&S system. They include an EFI 3.6 twin turbo that has the J&S in conjunction with a Motec M-600. It was extensively tested on an engine dyno with reportedly very good results. It has also been used very successfully used on highly developed 944 turbo race car from Seattle.
It seems to me the issue with a 930 is getting a good mounting location for the sensors, as was done for the 3.6 engines, like the one above. Does anyone know of any good methods? The nice thing about the factory location is that it's fairly distant from the valve train and (perhaps) not so likely to be confused by mechanical noises from the top end.
I know of several cars around here that use the J&S system. They include an EFI 3.6 twin turbo that has the J&S in conjunction with a Motec M-600. It was extensively tested on an engine dyno with reportedly very good results. It has also been used very successfully used on highly developed 944 turbo race car from Seattle.
It seems to me the issue with a 930 is getting a good mounting location for the sensors, as was done for the 3.6 engines, like the one above. Does anyone know of any good methods? The nice thing about the factory location is that it's fairly distant from the valve train and (perhaps) not so likely to be confused by mechanical noises from the top end.