is the 84 motronic still a cis system?
10-19-2002, 07:51 AM
#1
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is the 84 motronic still a cis system?
Whats the diffrent between the pre 84 k-jetronic injection system and the motronic injection that came 84?
Is it still a mecanical cis injetion system?
Is it still a mecanical cis injetion system?
10-19-2002, 11:46 AM
#3
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The Motronic setup is what you are used to seeing on the Carrera 3.2 forward. The 3.2 received the upgrade in the 84 lineup and the 930 didn't. In fact none of the 911 turbos had EFI until the twin turbo. Not even the 94. The K version was a revised setup that used an 02 sensor and frequency valve to regulate CO. So in answer to your question the 930s didn't have EFI.
10-19-2002, 12:56 PM
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hmmm thats strange. When i read the FAQ on 911 turbo then its noted that 930 also got motronic 84.
84 Carrera 3.2 mot 5.6 207k 192k 149 2760 21.0 25.2 30.0
84 930 3.3 (q) . . 300 . . 2860 22.5 30.5 43.5
84 911 SC RS . 5.0 . . 159 .
84 962 2.8 . . 650 . . .
the 930 3,3 300hp got motoronic if you read the faq. Is this correct then?
Is there maybe a diffrens in injection systems beetween the us an euro modell? I live in europe.
84 Carrera 3.2 mot 5.6 207k 192k 149 2760 21.0 25.2 30.0
84 930 3.3 (q) . . 300 . . 2860 22.5 30.5 43.5
84 911 SC RS . 5.0 . . 159 .
84 962 2.8 . . 650 . . .
the 930 3,3 300hp got motoronic if you read the faq. Is this correct then?
Is there maybe a diffrens in injection systems beetween the us an euro modell? I live in europe.
10-19-2002, 01:12 PM
#5
Nordschleife Master
CIS stands for continuous injection system and is a mechanical type of fuel injection found on all pre 3.2 Carreras, All 930 turbos through 94. 3.2 Carreras, 964, 993 & turbo, 996 & turbo, 944 & turbo, 968, 986 all have electronic fuel injection.
The main difference between EFI and CIS is that fuel delivery in a CIS setup is metered by a mechanical link between an air flow plate and the fuel distributor. There are no electronics. EFI systems use a computer and sensors to adjust the air/fuel mixture based on air temperature, engine temperature, engine load, throttle position, and to some degree O2.
The main difference between EFI and CIS is that fuel delivery in a CIS setup is metered by a mechanical link between an air flow plate and the fuel distributor. There are no electronics. EFI systems use a computer and sensors to adjust the air/fuel mixture based on air temperature, engine temperature, engine load, throttle position, and to some degree O2.
10-19-2002, 04:14 PM
#6
Geoffrey,
Don't forget the 928 from 1980 - 1995 had EFI but the Euro cars had CIS until '83.
Some CIS is electronically controlled. CIS-E was used by Mercedes unitl the early '90s.
Jim Nowak
Don't forget the 928 from 1980 - 1995 had EFI but the Euro cars had CIS until '83.
Some CIS is electronically controlled. CIS-E was used by Mercedes unitl the early '90s.
Jim Nowak
10-19-2002, 07:26 PM
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hmm but why is it written in the faq that 930 gets motronic 84.
or is it i that missunderstands the table in the faq?
I have read it through now a couple of times but i cant see that im missinterpreting it?
Please can you guys check out the table in faq for early 911. And see if the model table is correct.
im getting a bit confused hehe.
hmmm and here in europe motronic itself is not an injection system. its only a term that the ingnition and fuel system are integrated in each other.
So there is some diffrent system that all are motronic systems but have diffrent components and is called other things like for example LH-Jetronic.
And the electronic controlled CIS system is called KE-Jetronic and the non electronic controlles CIS system is called K-Jetronic.
or is it i that missunderstands the table in the faq?
I have read it through now a couple of times but i cant see that im missinterpreting it?
Please can you guys check out the table in faq for early 911. And see if the model table is correct.
im getting a bit confused hehe.
hmmm and here in europe motronic itself is not an injection system. its only a term that the ingnition and fuel system are integrated in each other.
So there is some diffrent system that all are motronic systems but have diffrent components and is called other things like for example LH-Jetronic.
And the electronic controlled CIS system is called KE-Jetronic and the non electronic controlles CIS system is called K-Jetronic.
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10-19-2002, 10:20 PM
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stimpen,
Where are you reading the FAQ's so we can look at it also. My understanding is the same as everyone elses. '84 turbos didn't have motronics, but the Carrera's did starting that year. If the ROW 930's had it at that time, we would have had it here in the US as well, as it's a better system.
Let us know about the FAQ's.
Jim
Where are you reading the FAQ's so we can look at it also. My understanding is the same as everyone elses. '84 turbos didn't have motronics, but the Carrera's did starting that year. If the ROW 930's had it at that time, we would have had it here in the US as well, as it's a better system.
Let us know about the FAQ's.
Jim
10-20-2002, 12:12 AM
#10
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Stimpen,
None of the 930s, 911 turbos or C2Ts ever had Motronic(EFI)injection. The C2Ts used digital ignition, but the injection was still CIS. Everything on the injection side was mechanical with no brain and or computer. There was a lambda control and a frequency valve, but that was it. Euro or US made no difference. Motronic never showed up on the turbos until the 993 Twin turbo. The Euro and US 930/911 turbo did have different fuel heads, but after 86 they were all the same. If somewhere it is posted that they had different that is incorrect.
None of the 930s, 911 turbos or C2Ts ever had Motronic(EFI)injection. The C2Ts used digital ignition, but the injection was still CIS. Everything on the injection side was mechanical with no brain and or computer. There was a lambda control and a frequency valve, but that was it. Euro or US made no difference. Motronic never showed up on the turbos until the 993 Twin turbo. The Euro and US 930/911 turbo did have different fuel heads, but after 86 they were all the same. If somewhere it is posted that they had different that is incorrect.
10-20-2002, 07:50 AM
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The faq is posted here on rennlist.
I goes to <a href="https://rennlist.com" target="_blank">https://rennlist.com</a>
then choose "tech areas" in the menu then "early 911 FAQ". The table is at chapter 1.4.
I goes to <a href="https://rennlist.com" target="_blank">https://rennlist.com</a>
then choose "tech areas" in the menu then "early 911 FAQ". The table is at chapter 1.4.
10-20-2002, 10:11 AM
#12
Nordschleife Master
Sorry, did not mean to leave out 928s, I just couldn't remember which ones came with CIS and which ones were EFI between Euro and US models. Yes, some CIS systems had electronics, but not as the basis to meter fuel, the metering of fuel is done by the mechanical linkage.
BOSCH Fuel injection used in Porsches
Pulsed injection systems (simple EFI - no ignition control)
D-Jetronic - 914E
L-Jetronic - air flow meter - 914, 928
LH-Jetronic - Same as L but with hot wire air mass. 928s, 928S4
CIS:
K-Jetronic - BOSCH's first CIS no electornics. 911, 911SC, 930
K-Jetronic with lambda - 930 86on, 924 Turbo, 911SC 80-83
Motronic - Complete engine management for Fuel, Lambda, and ignition - cars liste above in an earlier post.
BOSCH Fuel injection used in Porsches
Pulsed injection systems (simple EFI - no ignition control)
D-Jetronic - 914E
L-Jetronic - air flow meter - 914, 928
LH-Jetronic - Same as L but with hot wire air mass. 928s, 928S4
CIS:
K-Jetronic - BOSCH's first CIS no electornics. 911, 911SC, 930
K-Jetronic with lambda - 930 86on, 924 Turbo, 911SC 80-83
Motronic - Complete engine management for Fuel, Lambda, and ignition - cars liste above in an earlier post.
10-22-2002, 03:12 PM
#14
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Thanks Geoffrey:
Your list was very helpful. I am sure this question has been asked before, so forgive me in advance for asking, but Why did Porsche stay with the K-Jetronic all the way through the 1994 Turbos when they had at least ten years of experience with it on normally aspirated engines.
Second question, why does the K-Jetronic become the bottleneck when try to get to rwhp above 450 or so?
Regards,
Jeff
Your list was very helpful. I am sure this question has been asked before, so forgive me in advance for asking, but Why did Porsche stay with the K-Jetronic all the way through the 1994 Turbos when they had at least ten years of experience with it on normally aspirated engines.
Second question, why does the K-Jetronic become the bottleneck when try to get to rwhp above 450 or so?
Regards,
Jeff
10-22-2002, 07:22 PM
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Just to stir the apple cart a little, both the 84 Carrera Motronic AND the 76 to 89 930 K-Jetronic systems are CIS, i.e. Continuous Injection Systems. There is no comparison whatsoever in how the system continuously injects its fuel, but nevertheless they are both CIS. I think this may be where a little of the confusion is coming from.
Only with the introduction of the 964 in 89 did the Motronic system evolve into Sequential Injection, and as rightly said above the 993TT was the first production turbo Porsche to receive Motronic with its full electronic control over fuel and ignition, the 965's still had K-Jetronic.
Only with the introduction of the 964 in 89 did the Motronic system evolve into Sequential Injection, and as rightly said above the 993TT was the first production turbo Porsche to receive Motronic with its full electronic control over fuel and ignition, the 965's still had K-Jetronic.