Cajun

Are there any benefits or drawbacks of purchasing a Euro 930 instead of a U.S. version? I know that the Euro version has more base horsepower and a different fuel system, but other than that, is it generally just a matter of personal preference? Are they basically the same cars as far as finding parts are concerned?

Thanks

Luke

the grey market cars had side markers on the front fenders

ZCAT3

Luke - great answer! I always expect the old grey market have no resale value and will likely explode in a moderate collision (or going over a bump) response.

The 930s brought in from 1980 - 1985 will have some unique issues due to U.S. emissions and safety standards. As these cars were made for the rest of world ("ROW") market, they were not made to be necessarily compliant with U.S. standards. Hence, when imported to the U.S. they need to be made compliant for the state they were to be registered in and had to meet federal DOT and EPA standards. This almost always included adding a catalytic converter (thereby nullifying the extra power attributed to ROW cars) and perhaps stregthening the impact zones on the car (I am not sure about this one). If the car has a solid title and registration history in the U.S. then the grey market issue is likely not an issue. One thing to be a bit wary of is cars that were brought to the U.S. many years after their manufacture. Without being able to check the car's history overseas via the normal title checks (i.e. carfax) it is possible the car was wrecked or otherwise mistreated before its arrival on our shores.

I have an 86 930 that is a ROW model. It was imported to CA in 1986, as the title history proves, supposedly by someone who worked for an American company in Belgium and bought the car to bring back with him as her prefered the ROW model (many people do - this seemed to be a common thing of the moneyed-set in the 80s. Buy a ROW car and bring it here - I believe both Charlie Sheen and Jerry Seinfeld are known to have done this).

The ROW 930s tend to have a bit lower suspension and the earlier cars (ealry 80s) also have a more robust fuel system that can handle more power than the later cars.

Oh yeah - they also have side markers on the front fenders (although I have seen people add these to U.S. cars).

Cajun

ZCAT,

Thanks for the response. I have been researching the 930 for a little over a month now and I am trying to narrow my search by determining which year(s) I would be interested in purchasing. I spoke to my mother's mechanic about the 930 and he told me that the really important thing with these cars is documentation, even more so than mileage...He also recommended that I look for a car that is a little higher mileage (at least the 70k - 80k range) because I would be using the car as a daily driver. His reasoning was that the lower mileage cars would eventually develop more costly problem due to lack of use. What do you think?

ZCAT3

Turbos (and all P-cars for that matter) can suffer from lack of use, but that does not mean a low mileage car will have more problems. The key issue, as you already identified, is maintenance. If a car was only driven 2,000 miles a year, then you want to see at least one oil change and service per year (not one every 3-4 years using the 7,500 - 15,000 mile service interval in the owner's manual).

Your mechanic is smart, however, in that the really low mileage cars may sell for a premium and if you plan to have this as a daily driver then there is no need to pay for low miles. Keep in mind that these engines do need rebuilds. The highest mileage 930 I looked at had 120K on it. It drove great, but the PPI showed poor leakdown and the need for a top end rebuild soon.

Another thing to look for is perhaps finding a car with some of the updates already made to it. If you want a daily driver, then you want better low end repsonse than the stock 930 has. Items such as a K27 turbo, different cams, headers, etc. will all add to the daily driver ability of the car.

RO

I have an 85 930. Nice car. Sits lower than the later US models and has more stock HP but otherwise seems to be the same. I have had no problem with parts or service. I do have the history for it as well as EPA and DOT papers. I see no real difference nor does my mechanic. As far as years the 89 has the 5 sp tranny. Many state that this is a great improvement especially for in town driving. Good Luck. Randy

Cajun

ZCAT & RO thanks for the replies. I am leaning towards a Euro model provided I can find a good one within my budget. I have searched Autotrader, EBAY, & Rennlist for cars. Any suggestions on where else I should be looking? Keep in mind that 930's RARELY if ever come up for sale in Louisiana newspapers.

Since I have begun my search, I have made it a habit to check the Houston & Dallas classifieds without much luck. Most of the "local" Porsche dealers that I have contacted told me that they really don't come across any 930's. I was wondering, should I begin searching with exotic car brokers? Where did you guys begin your search?

Thanks again!

ZCAT3

I think rennlist and eBay are good. You can also post on the 911Turbo.com board that you are looking for a car within certain parameters. 930s have probably fallen off the exotic broker radar as they do not fetch enough money anymore. I found my car here on rennlist. It still amazes me how nice the car is at over 16 years old. I think one of the rennlist posters was thinking about selling his car - what sounded to be a correctly and nicely modified 930. You may want to look in the recent posts for this and contact him.

930chas

Cajun, first off, I wouldn't rush into anything. It took me over a year to find the exact car I wanted. You don't need to lean towards a euro car or a US car. You should lean towards the one that is what you want with full records and a good PPI. Also, not to disagree with Bill, but I would shy away from a car that has been heavily modified. If it has different cams in it, then the engine has been opened, and you aren't guaranteed of the quality of work done. Plus, modified cars are usually driven much harder then non-modified cars and this definitely wears on the motor. The k27 and an i/c are a nice upgrade, though. Keep checking Rennlist and 911turbo.com, and turbo911.com for cars for sale. Ebay and autotrader have them too, but most of the time they aren't "real" Porsche enthusiasts selling them, whereas for the most part on rennlist or 911turbo.com they are (except for gb who cussed everyone for not buying his car). I found my car on Rennlist. Good luck, and enjoy the hunt, that is 1/2 the fun.

Cajun

Thanks again for the helpful replies guys. Being that this will be my first Porsche, I am a little nervous about what to look for. After all, it is in a whole different league than my fiberglass chevy!!!

930chas, you mentioned that there is a a/c upgrade. Undoubtedly I would need this upgrade down in Louisiana. My "future" mechanic laughed when I asked him about the factory a/c in these cars...I believe he referenced a gerbil

At any rate, I guess that I should relish the search and the fact that I have FINALLY found a car to lust after.

Thanks again, and any information you guys could give me on that a/c upgrade (price, etc.)& overall reliability of these cars would be greatly appreciated.

Myles

930chas

Myles, whoops, actually, I said i/c upgrade, which is an intercooler upgrade. As far as a/c, your mechanic is right. It sounds like you have a great mechanic, everything he has told you is true. I don't even bother with my a/c, in fact I took it out of the car for now. But I do know that you want to check all your lines and components of the system first (this car will be at least 13 years old), then clean out the system and refresh with r12, and then there is an underbody condesner that supposedly helps. I think Stephen from Imagine had one on his 930.

Charlie Andrews

Cajun

Charlie,

Thanks again for your replies. After my last post, I realized that you referenced an I/C not an A/C. Shows you what I am more worried about huh???

I think that I have seen pictures of the underbody condenser. I don't know how well they work, but any improvement would be worth the cost/effort to me.

At this point, I know that I am going to buy one within the next several months. My only concern is that before I put the vette out to pasture, that I know I am getting a car that will not only excite me, but prove at least as reliable as the Vette has been. - My mechanic believes that once I locate the right car and perform the required maintenance, the 930 should fit the bill. I just don't want too many surprises.

Myles

930chas

I guarantee you it will excite you. These cars are incredible, and they become an all consuming passion. I don't know how reliable a vette is, but my car has proven to be reliable. Mine isn't a daily driver, though. Honestly, I would have a hard time driving mine daily. I just wouldn't want to do it, all the factors, bad weather, bad drivers, bad rock chips, etc. I would probably look to an M coupe, more civilized inside, good a/c and good heat, and lots of performance, plus I wouldn't be as concerned about anything happening to it. I know, I know, blasphemy.

Bruce M.

Not blasphemy at all, 930chas. I own a modded 930, that is not a daily driver. And a modded (Dinan supercharged) M3, that is. Perfect combo, if you ask me.

On the issue of whether to buy a modded car, there is no one-size-fits-all yes or no. But there are at least 2 things to look for. One--who did the mods? If it's an acknowledged expert in the field, as Bruce Anderson points out, you get the peace of mind associated with that, plus better resale value. This is not to say that if it isn't Andial, or Jerry Woods or Motorsport Design or others it isn't worth it--even the best had to get started at some point. But at the least, call the tuner who did the work and talk to him about the car and how long he's done these cars, for whom, etc.

Two--how has the car been maintained?: receipts, logs, etc.

The advantage of having other people do the mods is price. The disadvantage is risk. The engine mods on my 930 were poorly done. The mods on my Bimmer were very well done. A good PPI helps.

Go get 'em!

ZCAT3

Regarding modification, Bruce has identified the issue correctly. I purchased my 993TT already modified and paid a slight premium for this. The mods were done by Weissach in Vancouver, which as you may know is one of the premier Porsche tuners in North America as well as the North American RUF distributor. I spent quite a bit of time on the phone with them regarding the car, which they remebered working on, and had all the records on file. I knew that I would likely want to modify the 993TT a bit anyway if I got a stock one, so I ended up with about $20,000 in modificaitons for just a bit more that what a really nice example of my car in stock form would sell for. On the other hand, if there was no way to confirm the work was done right I would not have bought the car modified.