mikey175

Does this scenario sound right to you?

I've been searching for and finally found a 930 Turbo Targa that met all my criteria. It was listed by a dealer. We negotiated an agreement, I signed a PO and submitted a deposit. All good so far.

The day before the PPI, dealer calls to say that while they have the car, the title never arrived from the auction at which they purchased it. They claim there is nothing they can do about it, they will be shipping back the car to the auction, and getting back their money which is held on deposit by the auction. They also claim this happens ocassionally, especially with older cars, due to seller's remorse (this was a one owner car), divorce or a number of things. And they claim they have no recourse and no other options. They never signed the PO and returned my deposit.

I need a sanity check here, partially because I am really disappointed having felt that I finally found my car after a long hunt, and partially because I don't trust (most) delaers.

Does this sound reasonable to you? Do I/does the dealer have any recourse to the auction house or seller?

JDHertz11

Not normal but it happens. I deal with quite a few auto auctions in an unrelated business and we occasionally have problems receiving paperwork. Newer car, older car it doesn't matter. Once people start elaborating on why the title isn't there (one owner car, buyers remorse) I roll my eyes and walk away. Too many "stories" sometimes.

six gun

I may be more supicious than most but it it does not sound right. If you don't have the title, you don't have ownership of the car and should not enter into a contract to sell something you don't own. Sounds like he could have gotten a better offer.

I would do a web search to see if he has had the same thing happen before.
FWIW

JDHertz11

It's not the right thing to do but dealers buy a good percentage of their auction cars without paperwork. Sometimes it takes months to arrive. I don't think that the dealer should have "sold" a car with empty hands but the fact is that the car is no longer for sale. What to do? Chase the guy? Bad mouth him? Get into a verbal or internet confrontation with him? I'd say move on and don't attempt to buy another car from them again.

six gun

JD

Of course you are right about moving on and not getting into a battle you can't win, but he is looking for a 930 TAGA and that does not come around every day. I just think if this is not the first time this dealer pulled this, he should be called out on it. IMHO

mikey175

Thanks for responding!

JD, your experience suggests that this happens. If this is true, this validates for me what happened. My mind was going to all sorts of conspiracy theories.

6Gun, I want to believe this is not the dealer's doing, and that they are not double dealing. Assuming JD is right, there could be any number of explanations about why the deal is being reversed. This is the reason that I have not posted their name here. It is frustrating to be so close to finding and owning the car I had been looking for.

If this car disappears, so be it. If, however, it reappears in their inventory or shows up as being sold by them, that's a game changer.

pdqcarrera

My only comment is that I'm curious how your negotiations with the dealer could have left out the important detail that they didn't actually have the vehicle in possession, let alone the title.

Thank you for posting this as I will now log your experience into my memory bank so that I may avoid similar problem in the future.

Related note: did you see this ebay 930 targa?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1987-...-/300638775840

JDHertz11

And that will accomplish what? A pissing match with someone who may not be in the wrong in the first place? I'm usually the first person to "read" things bad but I'd just walk...

speednme

^^^ a pissing match may not be the answer but what dealer in their right mind would sell a car without having a title in hand. In this day and age a lot of business is generated through references from the Internet, it would not be unusual to out the dealer. They don't deserve the OP's loyalty. When one walks in to a dealer and sees the car that they want on the floor and is being told it is available, it is extremely fair to assume they have the title. Once the paper work has been completed the deal is done. No excuses after the fact. Moving on is really all one can do but informing others about shenanigans of a known dealer is only fair. This is why some places stay in business and others don't.

Good luck to the OP on his search

mikey175

PDQ,

Well that's the odd part...they DID have the car in their posession, but not the title.

TT Surgeon

Sounds like the dealer has a better offer.

JDHertz11

I'm sorry to say but but you guys are delusional. Dealers do this all the time. Too many conspiracy theories here. I deal with the paperwork for literally tens of thousands of auction cars yearly through my business. Cars change hands on minimal paperwork all the time... I'm out of here...

930Lover

This almost happened to me. The guy I bought my 930 from had a signed title from the previous owner but because he was a registered "dealer" he never titled the car in his name. When I got the title and gave him the money another name was on the title as owner. He told me it was just a formality but in reality the previous owner had died and my guy bought the car from the estate. He was just driving it for a few years without titling it. It happens. My problem was that I couldn't title it without the legal documents. 2 weeks later I got all the documents so I could prove it was purchased legally. What a hassle. In the end it was okay. It took a few days of sweating it out. If I couldn't have gotten all the paperwork I would have had to give the car back and get my money back. Ouch.

pdqcarrera

My bad (reading comprehension failure).
I'd have thought contracts would be more iron clad to prevent such things. Disappointment & wasted time & effort aside for all involved but perhaps some serious transport costs on someone's account.
account.

six gun

It was not a conspiracy therory for the OP. He lost the car. his time and risked his deposit to a deal that the dealer knew he could not complete unless he had the title. He did not disclose that to the the OP. That is unethical at best and fradulant at worst.