JFairman

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Out of the blue and with no symptoms that something might be wearing out or going wrong, my transmission just won't go into 2nd gear anymore.

It's a 1987 930 4 speed transaxle that was rebuilt about 20,000 miles ago by the previous owner. I have the receipts with all the parts that were replaced including the synchros.

It has a low grade short shifter that uses a weltmeister spacer plate to raise the whole shifter up around 1/2". That was in the car when I got it.
Seems some parts are missing from the shifter from diagrams I've seen online. There are no springs in it. Just the pivot for the shift lever.
It works OK so I hadn't decided to replace and upgrade it with a Wevo shifter or whatever ...yet.

I shift gears at regular speed, pausing a split second while the synchro unit does it's job on upshifts before moving the lever all the way into gear smoothly and I always match revs double clutching on downshifts.
The transmission was working perfectly with no grinding or noises, but maybe the shortshifter was still rushing the synchros or something.
It has a limited slip differential.

While driving, I tried pulling back into 2nd a little harder to try and get iit into gear and it felt like the synchro slider or operating sleeve was engaging with the synchro with difficulty and it locked in partially without fully engaging the 2nd gear selector teeth. It was locked there and wouldn't go into gear or back into nuetral so pushed harder towards nuetral and with an unpleasent sounding bonk it let go and went into nuetral.

I took apart the shifter and replaced the bushings, and repalced the 2 bushings in the rear shift coupler. They weren't worn much and having done that it still won't go into 2nd.

I guess the whole thing has to come out and be taken apart to figure out whats wrong.

Also, here's a list of the transmission parts that were replaced by the previous owner about 20,000 miles ago.
The top end of the motor was done at the same time so those parts are mixed into the list from the receipts.

Has anyone experienced anything like this, and does anybody have any ideas?

thanks in advance,
Jim

A930Rocket

I had the cheapo short shift kit and it worked well. There was a spacer like yours and a new shifter handle. The combination changes the fulcrum point I believe, thus making shorter shifts.

Sounds like something let go in the second gear. Maybe an anchor block, synchro, etc. I'm afraid a look inside is in order.

notthd

Jim- I had something similar on my low mileage 930. I bought the car with a small growl into 3rd gear with only 30K miles on it. I blew this off as a female (sorry for the male assumption) shifting problem, but was willing to take the risk because of the exec condition of the car. Less than 5K miles later my car made a pop noise under hard boost and would no longer go into 2nd. WTF???? I bit the bullet and had the trans rebuilt. My speed shop here in Va did a sincro etc rebuild similar to yours found out AFTER they put it in the car and test drove that it still would not go into 2ND.... WTF x3.... the trans came back out and they went though it with a magnified glass. Wound up being a cracked shifter fork that was bent enough to keep proper shifting from happening. The patern can be moved with adustment but we could never get it where all 4 gears were perfect so the trans had to be gone back through.

You can move the pattern with adjustment but with the "cannot get into gear" problem I do not think it is adjustment. I hope this may help and not depress..I too feel a look inside is in order...

I can get with my tech if you feel this close to your problem... Cheers, Mike

nathanUK '81 930 G50

I was thinking that maybe the shift fork has slipped on the shaft. If it has then the other gear (1st) would be nearer to fully engage, IOW you shouldn't need to push the shifter as far forward as you previously would have had too to fully engage 1st.
Feel anything like that Jim?

I'd certainly check the little fork that's held under the tranny by four nyloc nuts hasn't come loose before removing the tranny though. You could also check the detent springs haven't come out too.

JFairman

Thanks for the replies...

I think it's either something in the 2nd gear synchro unit or shift fork/internal linkage.

I put the short shifter lever unit and shift coupler back together with new bushings with moly grease and it feels tighter now.
Also heated up the shift lever red hot and bent it back further so the shift **** would be an inch closer to me and I like that better. I don't have to lean forward a little to reach 3rd gear anymore. Sanded it smooth and painted it gloss black even though the leather boot covers that part when installed.

Then I made new shift coupler bushings out of 5/8" long pieces of new Dayco barrier AC hose left over from my AC upgrades that fit the ID of the shift coupler perfectly with a nice snug interference fit.
The ID of my AC hose bushings had to be hogged out a little bit with a die grinder and carbide bur to let the shift coupler pin through with a snug fit.
The shift coupler is nice and tight now without buying the hard to find brass bushings, weltmeister bushings, or buying something like the zero slop Wevo shift coupler.

Anyway, I drove it last night and with a hard and unpleasent pull on the gearshift I got it into 2nd gear and it stayed there but it is really hard to get it out of gear and back into nuetral, and you can feel alot of vibration through the shift lever while doing it. Something is definately not right inside, while all the other gears are working normally.
So I can still drive it using 1st up to at least 4000rpm and then pausing in nuetral for a second while the gearset slows down and then shifting to 3rd.

Wish I'd used Swepco 201 instead of the Mobil SHC synthetic with 2 small bottles of AC Delco limited slip additive now. I don't know if that would have helped but everyone says the swepco 201 jives with the old porsche synchro design better than synthetic oil that is too slippery.

The AC Delco LSD additive was recommended to me by a local porsche mechanic to smooth out and stop the LSD clutch chattering I was getting when leaving an intersection from a stop and turning left or right at the same time.
It worked, and the reason for 2 bottles of it is it takes that much to work in the almost full gallon of gearbox oil thats in a 930 gearbox.

********************************************
Nathan, I'm guessing you mean I should try removing that aluminum plate on the gearbox and looking in at a shift fork?

Something changed all at once because it worked fine with no warning something was going wrong, and then it did this on the first upshift to 2nd the other day.

Oh well, maybe someday after I go broke from buying parts and working on this thing I'll be able to drive this car more than a month without something major breaking down. . . .

thanks again for all the helpful replies,
Jim

nathanUK '81 930 G50

The plate actually has a fork bolted to it with 3 small nuts. It's possible these small nuts may have come loose. I have double nutted mine in my 915.

It's number 6

JFairman

Thanks for posting that Nathan, I'll check that out before removing the transmission and after letting out the oil...
If I force it into second gear, it's even harder to get it out of second gear and back into nuetral..


I hadn't seen that shift rod/fork diagram before.

nathanUK '81 930 G50

The other thing I mentioned was the detents. They could cause difficult selection. Make sure one of the bolts hasn't come undone and fell out.
There is a detent between the two shafts to prevent two gears being selected at once but I think this would not be possible without stripping the tranny anyway.

JFairman

Around 4-5 weeks ago I took the little cover with pivot fork, #5 in that diagram off and the fork was fine and looking up inside the transmission everything looked fine and there were no metal filings or grit on the drain plug magnet.

The oil only had a few thousand miles on it so I saved it.

I didn't relish taking the whole thing out and it just sat for about a month until I decided to put the cover back on and the same oil back in so I could drive it again, just without using 2nd gear.

There was a really fun Brian Redmond Targa 66 event out at Palm Beach raceway last weekend with all kinds of racecars on the revised track that used to be Moroso Motorsports park out west of West Palm Beach. A buddy went in his 930 and I drove mine out.
On the way back to West Palm along the 20 mile stretch of flat straight road (route 710) we did what would be expected in that situation and by the time we got back to West Palm my transmission fixed itself and shifted in and out of second gear perfectly.

I don't know... maybe the centrifical force of high speed on the second gear synchro made something that was out of place making it very difficult to shift into and out of second gear went back into place and now the transmission is shifting just as well as it did before.
weird...

I had bought a gasket kit, shaft nuts, and synchro parts for first, second, and third gears. Around $700 in parts.
I wouldn't be surprised if the problem returns so I'll hang on to those parts. I may need them.

It's just so nice to have it working normal again and not have to pull the motor and transmission, etc.
I wonder if anyone else has ever had something like this happen.

Thanks for all the helpful replies, and here's a couple pics from saturday.

garyjreed

You have a burnt syncro slider. This is caused be not getting into gear all the way or down shifting with too high rpms. This flattens the locking splines on the end of the shift slider. this is not that uncommon a problem.

INURGRL951

Well I have had this before and it's the shift fork guide I think its called item number 6 in the above diagram. That has come loose or the tips of the fork are worn out by you style of driving. I noticed them to be very delicate at times as to the VERY FEW miles that are on my car I have been in quite a bit

JFairman

That sounds like a very good analogy and likely possibility.

I always match revs and double clutch on down shifts so I help the synchros there, but the shift coupler was adjusted so the shift lever was angled back and as close to the driver as far as possible and still get it into second.

It's a weltmeister short shifter and the lever was against the rubber gate or stop in the top of the shifter when pulled back into second so the lower part of the shift lever was not straight up in nuetral like it is supposed to be, it was angled back a little.
It's very possible and likely the slider wasn't fully engaged with the selector teeth on second gear for the last couple thousand miles and you figured it out.

I had the whole shifter apart when trying to diagnose this and replaced all the bushings and heated the shift rod and bent it back about an inch at the origonal bend point then sanded and repainted it black it so the lower part of the shift rod is now straight up in nuetral and the upper part of the shift rod is angled back more and the shift **** is closer than before.

I hope it lasts as it is working great now...

INURGRL951

So you didn't go into the tranny yet but re-shapin the shift rod helped the issue?

JFairman

I repositioned the shift lever so the bottom half is straight up while in neutral.
It was angled back somewhat and touching the rubber stop in the top of the aluminum shift unit while in second. It is a weltmeister short shifter in the shift tower.

It still wouldn't go into second after doing that at first but after driving the car for around 70 miles and not using 2nd gear the whole time I tried it just to see, and all of the sudden 2nd gear went in and shifted back out. I
It was a little stiff the first time but after doing it a few more times everything feels perfectly normal and the transmission shifts just like it did before all this happened.

I heated the shift rod red hot at the bend in it and bent it back a little more so the shift **** is about an inch closer to the driver now, while the lower half of the shift lever is straight up vertical.
I don't have to lean forward a little to shift into third gear with it this way so it is more comfortable for me.

I'm just guessing, but maybe the synchro unit slider wasn't all the way engaged with the selector teeth on second gear at all times like occasional full throttle acceleration and a little groove was starting to wear into the splines on the inside diameter of the slider or near the tips of the teeth where they engage and kind of lock into the selector teeth on second gear.
Then maybe the combination of repositoning the shift lever to it's correct position and occasionally trying to get it into second and taking the car up to around 130 or so the other day smoothed out any possible groove and now it oges into and out of second normally again.

Or, I'm just guessing here.. maybe an anchor block or stop block or energizer ring or whatever was a little out of place and it went back into place when I drove it fast.
I don't know what happened inside there, and I'm glad I don't have to take it all apart to find out.... at this time.

Before when it wouldn't go into second, you could feel a weird vibration in the shift lever while trying to get it into second like something inside was off center or out of alignment inside and if you really pulled back on the shift lever it would go into second but then it would be really hard to get it out of second.
All other gears shifted normally and felt normal.

One person I talked to thought maybe the selector teeth on second gear had been installed incorrectly when my transmission was rebuilt around 20,000 miles ago and the slider had pulled it off second gear part way. If thats the case then it is now pushed back onto second gear.
It takes a special tool similar to a gear puller to pull the selector teeth off a gear and then a new one needs to be pressed back on in a press. Usually heating the selector teeth ring, and chilling the gear first.

Who knows. Now I have a whole bunch of syncro parts and a gasket set if I have to go into it yet...

edit: Here's a pic of the first and second slider on the left, also called an operating sleeve.
When shifting into a gear the shift fork pushes it over the synchro ring on that gear compressing it a little and with friction it matches the revs of that gear to the operating sleeve and then the slider meshes with the selector teeth in the right picture, also called dog teeth on the gear locking it to the shaft. The operating sleeve or slider is on a synchro hub that is on splines fixing it to the shaft in between two gears that are on needle bearings on the same shaft.

The dog teeth are pressed onto the gear in a large bench vice or hydraulic press and should not come off the gear when in use.

nathanUK '81 930 G50

Here's a beat 2nd gear dog from a 915. I'm wondering if you had a tooth stuck in there.