Suspension mods
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 280
Likes: 1
From: Nor Cal Bay Area
Originally Posted by RSRS
"Give yourself some credit, Peter. They aren't passing you because they have springs and you don't.
The ONLY car that passed my ol' torsion junker (when driven by the PO) was a Viper Competition Coupe. That's it. No one else, ever.
The ONLY car that passed my ol' torsion junker (when driven by the PO) was a Viper Competition Coupe. That's it. No one else, ever.
Former Vendor
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,299
Likes: 4
From: Kirkland, WA
That applied to the PO - and not in the POC etc with the big, big ultra high HP boys. Like yourself.
I posted that reference to show that a torsion bar car isn't some mid-pack pig, hindered by clumsy old bars with coilovered rigs passing at will. Just isn't the truth.
Frankly, I'm a bit tired, as well as feel a bit of remorse for, guys dropping big coin for coilver with chassis reinforcement OR adjustable JRZ etc setups.....then complete confusion and ill handling results. 99% of us are just fine with a well setup (read: professional help, 1 time no further 'adjustments' except sways and tire pressures) torsion setup.
Seriously.....if someone is up in the Seattle area with your 930, we can trade cars for a track session. See what you think. As a plus, my car is actually easy to drive...
I posted that reference to show that a torsion bar car isn't some mid-pack pig, hindered by clumsy old bars with coilovered rigs passing at will. Just isn't the truth.
Frankly, I'm a bit tired, as well as feel a bit of remorse for, guys dropping big coin for coilver with chassis reinforcement OR adjustable JRZ etc setups.....then complete confusion and ill handling results. 99% of us are just fine with a well setup (read: professional help, 1 time no further 'adjustments' except sways and tire pressures) torsion setup.
Seriously.....if someone is up in the Seattle area with your 930, we can trade cars for a track session. See what you think. As a plus, my car is actually easy to drive...
Instructor
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by VZ935
Coil overs .... 1:48 at Thunderhill through the Eagles nest . .
What kind of setup and mods were you using to turn this time??
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,568
Likes: 10
From: Mount Pleasant, South Carolina
Is there anyone running at VIR with coil overs? What kind of power do you have and what kind of times are you running?
I'm running old school 22/30 solid torsion bars, 22m sway bars, spring plates, Bilsteins 18'' BBS wheels with Dunlops. About 325 rwhp. My best time at VIR is a 2:11. I usually run consistent 2:12's to 2:15's depending on traffic. With this set up, about the only cars that pass me are late model cup cars and Brian Keith Smith's 930.
I'm running old school 22/30 solid torsion bars, 22m sway bars, spring plates, Bilsteins 18'' BBS wheels with Dunlops. About 325 rwhp. My best time at VIR is a 2:11. I usually run consistent 2:12's to 2:15's depending on traffic. With this set up, about the only cars that pass me are late model cup cars and Brian Keith Smith's 930.
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,740
Likes: 894
From: About to pass you...
Originally Posted by A930Rocket
Is there anyone running at VIR with coil overs? What kind of power do you have and what kind of times are you running?
How much does your car weigh?
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,568
Likes: 10
From: Mount Pleasant, South Carolina
Stock weight plus cage. Stock 4 speed.
But you have coil overs...
But you have coil overs...
Originally Posted by 38D
Based on the other racers I know that have done VIR recently, I would guess that 2:11s are doable in my D class 964 Turbo (stock engine + headers + no cats might be 330fwhp?). Chris Castagna ran a 2:09 in his C '89 930, which had a short R&P.
How much does your car weigh?
How much does your car weigh?
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,740
Likes: 894
From: About to pass you...
Originally Posted by A930Rocket
Stock weight plus cage. Stock 4 speed.
But you have coil overs...
But you have coil overs...
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,568
Likes: 10
From: Mount Pleasant, South Carolina
Actually the car weighs about 2950. Add me at 250.
I've probably maxed out my ability to go any faster there, as I have about 4000 miles at VIR (10 years total track time). BKS (he's just over over 2:00 I think) and I were talking how nice it would be to have a really good driver ride with us and give us some tips on getting better.
I've probably maxed out my ability to go any faster there, as I have about 4000 miles at VIR (10 years total track time). BKS (he's just over over 2:00 I think) and I were talking how nice it would be to have a really good driver ride with us and give us some tips on getting better.
Originally Posted by 38D
Ok, so ~2800lbs, 325rwhp and dunlop slicks. Hmmm. Assuming the suspension is stetup well, I think you might be able to be in the low 2:07s or even high 2:06s. I am basing that off Bob Scotto's 2:05.1 on Dunlop slicks at the Glen race, and VIR is a second of so slower than the Glen. Bob's car is a little lighter, but you've got a bit more power, so net-net probably similar. At the average DE, low 2:09s/high 2:08s is probably the max as you just are not going to get many (if any) clean laps, nor are you going to have many people to run with/chase at that speed.
Rennlist Stories
The Best Porsche Posts for Porsche Enthusiasts
Every Era of 911 Owner Explained in One Sentence
Verdad Gallardo
Thinking of Buying a Porsche? Do These 10 Things First
Joe Kucinski
Pixar Pals Turned Into 1-of-1 Porsches!
Michael S. Palmer
Theon Goes Full Carbon Fiber With Stunning New Build
Verdad Gallardo
Genius Porsche-Themed Gifts That'll Make Any Dad or Grad Smile
Joe Kucinski
10 Used Porsches Are Selling for Way Too Cheap
Joe Kucinski
Tuner Is Converting Porsche 911s Into Shooting Brakes
Verdad Gallardo
This Coachbuilt Creation Is A Modern Take on the Legendary Porsche 917
Verdad Gallardo
Is This Convertible Cayenne A Steal, Or A Returnless Investment?
Verdad Gallardo
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,885
Likes: 0
From: Concord, NC
38D:
That 2:07/06 isn't gonna happen with a stock 930 gearbox like me and A930Rocket has. With my car, which has a stock gearbox, the fastest lap I've ran on Hoosier R3S05's is a 2:07.70. One of the main reasons is gearing. Jim and I lose alot of time when we make that shift into 4th on the front and back straight.
I don't even hit 5000 RPM on the back straight in 4th. That's well over 500 RPM below my max HP and Torque. Plus in 4th, I don't get full boost (max boost I see in 4th is .9 bar, only in cold weather) because 4th isn't putting enough load on the car.
So Jim having more HP/Torque is kinda irrelevant if you don't actually get that power on the 2 big straights where you should be able to really make use of all the power.
I've seen a lot of lower hp/heavier cars keep up with me down the straight after I go into 4th. I've got my pedal to the floor, but it ain't pullin. A well geared car will make up the difference I think.
Brian
That 2:07/06 isn't gonna happen with a stock 930 gearbox like me and A930Rocket has. With my car, which has a stock gearbox, the fastest lap I've ran on Hoosier R3S05's is a 2:07.70. One of the main reasons is gearing. Jim and I lose alot of time when we make that shift into 4th on the front and back straight.
I don't even hit 5000 RPM on the back straight in 4th. That's well over 500 RPM below my max HP and Torque. Plus in 4th, I don't get full boost (max boost I see in 4th is .9 bar, only in cold weather) because 4th isn't putting enough load on the car.
So Jim having more HP/Torque is kinda irrelevant if you don't actually get that power on the 2 big straights where you should be able to really make use of all the power.
I've seen a lot of lower hp/heavier cars keep up with me down the straight after I go into 4th. I've got my pedal to the floor, but it ain't pullin. A well geared car will make up the difference I think.
Brian
Racer
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
From: Up North
I agree with Brian... at short track (Tremblant where I usually run), with stock gearing, even if I'm ~100hp up on a stock 993, if I need that up shift to 4th, it makes it VERY hard to get even a car length off a 993 unless the straight are really long.
I have shorter gearing now and it helps tremendously... Brian - time to think about different gearing
I have shorter gearing now and it helps tremendously... Brian - time to think about different gearing
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 280
Likes: 1
From: Nor Cal Bay Area
Hey Brian.. you got my old tub lookin good! That car was a mid 1:50 car at Thill with about 500 fly wheel single turbo HP and an all steel body when Jeff T was driving it, had my old coilovers on it.. that were originally Kevin Bucklers old coilovers....you still running those same coilovers !
There older than my grandmama !
My car has ProTrac coil overs with your basic 935 suspension and Charley Bars.. but the guy I share my shop with at Infineon , Bob Stefanowicz , has me wipped in his turbo car... 1:47 through the Eagles nest. And actually ,I am pretty sure he has done a 1:46.....
Oh RSRS .. I would never refer to your car as a mid pack pig.. it's a Porsche and a fine looking one to boot and I am sure it performs admirably! I do not see any problem with a person staying with T-bars...as long as your having a good time and enjoying your car that is really what it is all about... we all know that. As far as setting up a coil over car...piece of cake..nothing new under the sun.. the set ups for these cars are out there. If a person want's to spend money on his car you shouldn't be "tired" or " feel remorse" for them.. you should encourage them. As long as a guy is still putting a roof over his families heads and shoes on his kids feet I don't understand begrudging anyone spending a million dollars on a car if they want to.
There older than my grandmama !My car has ProTrac coil overs with your basic 935 suspension and Charley Bars.. but the guy I share my shop with at Infineon , Bob Stefanowicz , has me wipped in his turbo car... 1:47 through the Eagles nest. And actually ,I am pretty sure he has done a 1:46.....
Oh RSRS .. I would never refer to your car as a mid pack pig.. it's a Porsche and a fine looking one to boot and I am sure it performs admirably! I do not see any problem with a person staying with T-bars...as long as your having a good time and enjoying your car that is really what it is all about... we all know that. As far as setting up a coil over car...piece of cake..nothing new under the sun.. the set ups for these cars are out there. If a person want's to spend money on his car you shouldn't be "tired" or " feel remorse" for them.. you should encourage them. As long as a guy is still putting a roof over his families heads and shoes on his kids feet I don't understand begrudging anyone spending a million dollars on a car if they want to.
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,885
Likes: 0
From: Concord, NC
Yes Van. I'm still running whatever was on the car. Haven't changed anything other than sway bar settings.
I definitely paid Ken too much for this thing!
In fact, I haven't even corner-balanced this thing since i put my engine/tranny in it. Main thing I need to do is reconfigure the cage.
Brian
I definitely paid Ken too much for this thing!
In fact, I haven't even corner-balanced this thing since i put my engine/tranny in it. Main thing I need to do is reconfigure the cage.
Brian
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,740
Likes: 894
From: About to pass you...
Originally Posted by A930Rocket
What kind of car and setup does Bob have?
How about Road Atlanta? My best time there is a 1:40:xx. That was a good day! Not sure if I'll beat that again.
How about Road Atlanta? My best time there is a 1:40:xx. That was a good day! Not sure if I'll beat that again.
At the raod Road Atlanta race this year, Terry Heath ran a 1:38.047 in a D stock '87 930. You have more power and slicks, so a low 1:36 seems doable.
Btw, slicks are a huge improvement over Hoosiers or MPCSs. Scotto & Burger went from 2:10s at Watkins Glen to 2:05s by dropping 250lbs and running slicks. The Dunlops alone were worth 1 second over the Yoks, and another 2 over Hoosiers. On the down side, they last like 10-12 heat cycles!
Originally Posted by BrianKeithSmith
That 2:07/06 isn't gonna happen with a stock 930 gearbox like me and A930Rocket has. With my car, which has a stock gearbox, the fastest lap I've ran on Hoosier R3S05's is a 2:07.70. One of the main reasons is gearing. Jim and I lose alot of time when we make that shift into 4th on the front and back straight.
I don't even hit 5000 RPM on the back straight in 4th. That's well over 500 RPM below my max HP and Torque. Plus in 4th, I don't get full boost (max boost I see in 4th is .9 bar, only in cold weather) because 4th isn't putting enough load on the car.
I don't even hit 5000 RPM on the back straight in 4th. That's well over 500 RPM below my max HP and Torque. Plus in 4th, I don't get full boost (max boost I see in 4th is .9 bar, only in cold weather) because 4th isn't putting enough load on the car.