I own an '86 911 Carrera Coupe, w/79,00 miles. When I start the engine cold, the oil level on the gauge is in the red (low) and when I check the oil level on the dip stick it is low but is registering on the stick. As the engine warms, the level begins to rise until it is maxed out at the top of the gauge, and when I check the dip stick, it is maxed out right at or slightly above the max mark. There is also a slushing sort of noise coming from what appears to be the engine compartment when cold starting that goes away when the engine is at running temp. Any ideas what could be causing this? This just started happening after the tranny/engine was re-installed in the car after the tranny rebuild. The wrench told me that they only put 8 quarts of oil in.

Thanks for any ideas.
Regards,
Jim
'86 911

 

There is only one accurate means to measure oil level:
- car is level,
- idling at around 800-900 rpm
- oil is warm, 90 degF or about 190 degF +/-

It must be this combo. Fill to the "mid level" mark. If you fill to "full", you risk having the excess oil go back into the air intake once the oil is further warmed. Leads to suspicion of high oil consumption.

--Wil Ferch

 

Oops..

-90 degC or approx 190 degF....

--Wil Ferch

 

Wil,
Thanks for the input, however I know this already. As stated above, when I start the engine cold, the oil level on the gauge is in the red (low) and when I check the oil level on the dip stick it is low but is registering on the stick. Then as the engine warms, the level begins to rise until it is maxed out at the top of the gauge, and when I check the dip stick, it is maxed out right at or slightly above the max mark. I consider warmed up after I have driven the car for 20 minutes, and the engine temp gauge is between the mid and lower hash marks. BTW, this dip stick checking is taking place on level ground.

Regards,
Jim
'86 911

 

Jim:
If, as you say, you know this, then you shouldn't even concern yourself about the reading you get when first started and cold, etc etc, because it won't tell you anything useful.
BTW, for our series of cars ( mid-80's), the lower-to-upper gauge marks are:
-lowest white bar 60 degC ( 140 degF)
- next white line...90 degC ( 194 degF)
-next white line....120 degC (248 degF)
- bottom of red block...150 degC ( 302 degF)

A quick approximation is ( in sequence): 150/200/250/300.

Don't even bother checking oil level until 90 degC.

--Wil Ferch

 

Jim,

Oil at the top/max or above is too much oil in the system. As Wil mentioned, the optimal point is half way between the two marks on the dipstick. A little higher than midpoint is OK, too. If you drive in a sporting manner with that much oil, you'll find it in your air intake creating quite a mess.

 

Bill & Wil thanks.
OK, OK I back off. I didn't fill the car with oil, the wrench did. I mentioned this issue to him and he told me that he did not over fill. He said, "I only put in 8 quarts." (Remember this is after he had drained the engine and emptied the oil tank, pulled the engine/tranny, then reinstalled.) I believed him and thought he knew what he was talking about - I guess he does not (another one of my problems). Thus I thought there must be another issue. But according to what you guys are saying he did overfill. If this is the case, could it cause these gurgling, sloshing sounds that I'm now hearing that I've never heard before that go away when the car warms up to operating temp?

Regards,
Jim
'86 911

 

If I can just jump in here a second and mentionl that the system holds 12 qts,....

When you do an oil change or R&R's the engine, you usually have to pour in 10 qts to get a good oil level (dipstick, never guage!)

Unless your mechanic drained the lines and front cooler, you'll likely need another 1.0 to 1.5 qts, assuming that he did indeed only put in 8 qts. Wil is right on, NEVER believe the oil lvel guage and always check oil level at 180-190F on level ground after its idled for 1 minute or more.

Regardless, check the dipstick reading as directed here and add oil as needed. In the majoity of 911's, that guage is a "red herring",..............

 

Steve W,
What does 'R&R' stands for? Sorry for being ignorant to such acronym. Thanks.

 

BoyT-911 R&R = Remove & Replace.

Steve - I didn't want to start an argument or sound like a jerk, but when you stated "When you do an oil change or R&R's the engine, you usually have to pour in 10 qts to get a good oil level (dipstick, never guage!)" you confirmed my point. If the wrench says he only put in 8 quarts, after the R&R, then why, after the engine has been run for 20 minutes and has reached operating temperature (just under the 9 o'clock hash mark, almost to midway) does the dipstick read just over max? This has been my point all along.......... I really do know how to check the oil level, I really do (I've done many, many, oil changes and never had this issue)......

Thanks,
Jim
'86 911

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by jet911:
<strong>BoyT-911 R&R = Remove & Replace.

Steve - I didn't want to start an argument or sound like a jerk, but when you stated "When you do an oil change or R&R's the engine, you usually have to pour in 10 qts to get a good oil level (dipstick, never guage!)" you confirmed my point. If the wrench says he only put in 8 quarts, after the R&R, then why, after the engine has been run for 20 minutes and has reached operating temperature (just under the 9 o'clock hash mark, almost to midway) does the dipstick read just over max? This has been my point all along.......... I really do know how to check the oil level, I really do (I've done many, many, oil changes and never had this issue)......

Thanks,
Jim
'86 911</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hi Jim:

LOL,....My deepest apologies, Sir. I did not intend to denigrate your skills,.........

I just tried to offer that something here did not "compute".

One thing,......if the fender-mounted thermostat is not opening, that might account for the oil level being low on the dipstick. I'd suggest that when the oil temp guage reaches normal readings, feel the oil lines under the right rocker panel to see if they are hot.

(indeed, R&R is "remove and replace")

 

Hi Steve,
No apologies needed, my skills are only that of a back-yard wrench. I do mostly routine maint. and project work up to a level 3 out of 5, on my P-car, however I have done total rebuilds on MGs (years ago) and my BMW, so I feel I do have a basic understanding of motor cars and how they are built and operate, just not with P-cars YET. I do have a 101 projects book, Bentley and Haynes manuals and a PET disc, so I do feel "fairly" comfortable regarding most intermediate projects. I'm simply trying to understand why this may be happening...so that if there is "other issues here," it won't lead to more serious problems. I'm relatively new to P-cars (owned mine for only 2 1/2 years). Last night I called the wrench, who still has my car, and posed the statement to him that you raised: If you only put in 8 quarts, then not only should the dipstick "not" be reading max, but it should be "low" 1 to 1.5 quarts" and of course this is after the car has reached operating temp. of 180 - 190 F. My sneaking suspicion is that he did not empty the oil from the engine, only the tank, thus when he put in 8 quarts, he indeed may have over-filled by a quart. Anyway, I've asked him to drain the oil in both the engine and tank, and refill with 8 quarts to "begin with," then add oil "AFTER" is reaches operating temp, which Wil and yourself and 101 projects have stated is 180 - 190 degrees. We'll see if this corrects the issue.

I'm sorry to have bothered everyone with this "stupid" question and will not ask questions again as it seems that everytime I do, I get hammered.

Good luck to everyone........

Jim
'86 911

 

Hi Jim:

OMG,....No bother at all! This is precisely what this Forum is for. If you are uncomfortable posting something here, contact me directly and I'll be happy to help in any way I can.

Just for the record here; whenever the oil is changed or the engine is removed, the oil is always drained from the engine & the tank. This is standard operating procedures so refilling the tank and checking the oil levels are the same, regardless which one was done.

Your mechanic HAD to have emptied both, when R&R'ing the engine.

Please let me know what you find,....

 

Server farted and double posted

 

Gang:
Steve is right in his usual way.
If, ..now as we are sensitive to more information...you are unsure where you actually stand with regard to total oil quantity in the system, you may just need to drain into a clean container and start over. An initial fill of 8-9 quarts is ususally fine without overfilling, and a slow addition of a little more will usually do the trick. Total capacity of a 911 with front cooler is about 13 qts...with a refill capacity of 10 qts ( 3 stays behind). IMHO...I like the forged brass and stainless Fumoto drain valves. This way, if you *did* overfill, you can always take out a smidge very easily.
---Wil Ferch