Amber Gramps

A friend of mine, a podiatrist, owned a '76 930 from new. He was hit in the early '90's, totaling the poor car. His insurance company paid him more than $80,000 for the loss. He was almost embarrassed to make out so well. Can't imagine the money that car would bring today.

JCP911S

Steve McQueen car... all bets off.

Once cars stop becoming "cars" and become "art" all bets are off in terms of pricing.... few, of none of these buyers will actually drive the cars.

I'll bet you some 70 year old millionaire with arthritis has absolutely no interest in driving a '76 Turbo, but will pay $200K to park it in a garage, and will sell it for $250K if he can find a greater fool.

That's the market.

Mondrian

I know a few guys that own $1m+ cars and none fit that description JC, majority are enthusiasts like us but with deep pockets. Come to think of it wasn't Steve one such enthusiast with deep pockets?

73911

The stereotype of who buys collector cars is just totally wrong. Every collector I know drives their cars. They may not do it every day but when you own a couple of dozen cars it's a little difficult.

Most collectors also know that if a car isn't driven on a regular basis is deteriorates. These are not stupid people.

The whole notion of Garage Queen is just totally false.

Ok, in the case of Ralph Lauren it might be true. Ralph is the exception in many different ways. I think he invented the concept of over restoration.

Just don't get caught in furthering the old stereotypes.

Here's a vid of one of the top Porsche collections in the world being driven around the Napa Valley. Not only does Bob Ingram drive his cars but he lets other people drive them as well.

Richard Newton

J richard

The McQueen turbo was not only a celeb car but also a charity auction. You can pretty much throw that valuation out the window for reference. The low mile, uber original, pristine car gets top dollar from collectors of all sorts, a 944 got a surprising sum (relative to its street value), but it seemed that the whole market moved up in unison which is a bit more telling.
When you look at ferraris that used to be pretty pedestrian in value 308 or 328, they were strong. I still don't understand a Buick GNX at twice the cost of an original Shelby GT350 but there's no accounting for taste I guess...the 73rs touring was light $.

Porsches have always had the rare collector pieces, but for the most part you could always find a solid car in just about any year for a very reasonable price. That made it approachable and fun. Once the broker and dealers got a whiff it moved from enthusiasts to investors. It pushes the costs out of reach, and even enjoying your cars becomes a constant worry that if you get hit you can't afford to replace the car. That's a bit sad.

GTgears

People keeping talking about the charity part of the McQueen car. 5% went to charity. That's around $100k on a $2M bid. Something tells me it didn't effect the end price very much.

I suspect if we want to bemoan garage queens we should be looking at 1 and 2 car owning garages. The guy with a $50k or $100k car that he can't afford to replace if he wrecks it is the guy who is scared to drive it and mostly waxes it and only gets it out once or twice a year. As Richard mentioned a lot of the serious collectors aren't like that.

Though there are exceptions to every rule. A lot of cars that went to Ingram a few years back came out of Dr Bill Jackson's collection here in Denver. He had over 100 cars and they were not driven. He had a part time guy who regularly went in and started the cars but that was about it. There were dozens of cars there with 1000 miles or less on them. He used to take a different one to the CP concours every year but most of that stash never saw the light of day until Bob liberated it.

JCP911S

I'm that stereotype... I have 7 cars, and simply cannot drive them all. I drove all of them at one time, and drove them hard, they mean something, and I couldn't bring myself to sell them.

But I can't drive 7 old cars every day, or even every week, and recharging a dead battery, or adjusting a sticky clutch linkage is a major PIA, and its just easier to fire up the BMW, and get a cuppa'

I remember at Summit Point (Jefferson 500), and Ralph Lauren brought 6 incredible vintage race cars, and hired name drivers to drive them and never even showed up...

I told my wife "here's a guy who is so rich, he has a supermodel mistress, and hires somebody else to scr*w her for him"

She agreed. Then she hit me.

Redline1

Bubbles are nothing new - talking to a guy at a local car show who owns one of the last 89' Turbo Looks. The car had 12 owners in nine months when new.

Out of interest, he contacted the original dealer for an explanation, and was told the car had effectivelybeen traded by London city types as a speculative investment - most owners had not even seen the car.

Prices are also strong in the UK - bought my Turbo Look Targa 62,000 miles(to use not - as an investment) for $58,000 last October.

Equivalent car prices now are approx $95,000 - The SSE Turbolooks are quite rare though.

Matt9967

It is less to do with what actual % makes it to the charitable action on the auction house side, but what is happening on the front end as a buyer. As far as I know, and unless tax code has changed in the past couple years, the difference between the appraised/fmv of the item being bid and the (higher) winning bid amount is tax-deductible as a charitable donation. A car valued at $100k, that auctions for $150k renders a $50k deduction for the buyer.

Mondrian

There is some good news in all this, folk are putting money into cars, that means mechanics, painters, welders, tuners, parts suppliers, electricians, machinists & of course enthusiasts......some wealth redistribution is not a bad thing.

stuttgart1

I believe the modern classic models still have room to go up with its increasing interests from younger enthusiasts. When you look at a 10k E30 M3 sold for $96k at Bonhams, the G model 911, 964, 993 are still relatively reasonable.

Monterey recap from Hagerty,
https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vid...ws%208-19-2015

Mondrian

I agree but E30 M3 is not a good comparison as they only made 5000 of those, besides 964 has already surpassed that mark with a sub 10k miler selling over $120k earlier this year (by dealer).

Amber Gramps

This is where I just chuckle. I'm in this game to do it myself. It's my hobby, so if it gets done, it gets done by me. I wrench, I fab, I paint, I weld, I go to my supplier and pull the parts myself out of the warehouse. Not everyone has a place they can do that, but I do. For me, it is total immersion.

Why pay someone else to do all the easy stuff when I can do it? Isn't that the point of a hobby car? Ya, when it's time to get inside the engine I'll let someone else do any machine work that needs doing, but damn it, I'm turning the wrenches.

J richard

Yep, it's a car wrapped in a tax deduction...

J richard

Exactly. Never bought a car for investment, never will. For many years drove 911s every dar daily driver. But it just starts getting easier to grab the bimmer or truck, then the 911 battery goes down because you forgot to plug it in and it sits until you have the time, boom you are an accidental collector....
I had a beautiful RSA stolen from my parking lot at work. Yea because I drove it to work. The insurance company paid the going rate at the time but it was pretty touch and go. This was right at the run up to current costs, I found a nice replacement and bought it and bought the salvage back too (it's a racecar now). If the current car got hit it would be tough to replace (20k mile all original RSA) At the time I happily would have paid $50k to replace it, I would not have paid $100-$175 for mid mile cars. I was even entertaining a 94 turbo for $60k. (Shoulda woulda coulda) I'd get something else, I like the car but it's just not worth it to me. That's a value judgement. Same is true of the early car run up, $35k for a mid mile 77? That's where the enthusiast gets pushed out of the market.

If I'd only kept all the cars I'd had as drivers over the years it would be a fortune but then I'd be a collector (or hoarder)....