Hunt3R

Hi Rennlist, it's been a while since I've owned a Porsche but I finally decided to sell my track modified '02 WRX and get back in one, this time a 911. My last Porsche was an '84 944 so I'm not completely familiar with everything 911 and I've found one that I want to buy but after inspecting it in person I discovered it had more issues than I was initially informed about before driving 100 miles to check it out in person...

The car is a 1985 911 Carrera 3.2 Cabriolet and around a decade ago it was stolen, interior and body stripped, and the owner decided to purchase it back from the insurance company and restore it; however, he did a frame-off conversion to make the exterior and interior look like a 1996 993 turbo widebody, but mechanically it's still an '85 and although spacers were used on the 993 wheels and you can see the '85 brakes behind them. The A/C controls are also still the sliding ***** from the '85. And the exhaust is from the 993 and had to be custom fit to the '85 engine.

The current owner is a collector and he purchased it from the doctor who restored it over 7 years ago. I'm told he spent nearly $40k and regretted putting that much into it but still completed it. He also rebuilt the motor, transmission, and put in a new clutch. This was all approximately 20k miles ago and the chassis has around 120k total on it but it's impossible to know now because the odometer has not been working, nor is the speedometer working, nor is the oil pressure\temp gauges working. Tach works though!

Other issues:

• I was told that it has never leaked a drop of oil but first thing I did was get under the car with a flashlight and I found a small drop of oil coming off the lower valve cover on the driver side and 1 drop on the garage floor under that.
• I went to turn the key to start it up and it just clicked once and then nothing. After checking all fuses we ended up push starting it and I drove it to Autozone and they said the battery and alternator are good, so it seems by coincidence the starter died right when I got there to test drive it. The owner says it has never had any starting issues or any other electrical issues and he is very sorry and will pay to fix the starter before selling it.
• After push starting again, I took it for a nice long drive to let the tires warm up because I felt a little shuddering and thought maybe they had soft spots from it rarely being driven. Well not only did it have a strong pull to the right but the longer I drove the worse the vibration got and at highway speeds the steering wheel started shaking pretty bad, I assume tie rods or control arms or something are bad. The owner again apologized because I specifically said I did not want to come drive it and find suspension issues and he had said that I would not be disappointed but sure enough, that's exactly what I found. He again offered to pay to fix any suspension issues and get it driving straight before selling.
• The speedometer and odometer and oil gauges all do not work and were not an issue for him because he rarely drives it, but I plan to drive the car more regularly and I need/want these gauges working. I'm not sure how much I'll have to invest to fix the gauges and this worries me the most of any of the issues assuming he fixes the above problems...
• The only other faults I could find were the power mirrors did not work and the owner said that he thought they had always worked. And the windshield wipers seemed to have only 1 speed and you have to time turning them off right as they go down. Relay maybe?
  

On the good side:

• The engine ran steady and pulled very strong, I got it to redline a few times after warming up and it sounds great, but as mentioned above I saw that drop of oil so it may need a valve cover gasket replacement or even the valve cover replaced if it's warped. This should be an easy cheap fix I believe.
• The rebuilt 915 transmission is very smooth and easy to shift, it bitched a little if I tried to go into first without coming to a near-complete stop, but I think that's to be expected? I was actually very impressed with how it shifted, although the clutch travels differently than what I'm used to feeling with my foot, more of a downward movement towards the end, it did have a very good feel and engaged properly.
• The brakes felt strong too, no sounds from them, no complaints there.
• Cosmetically the car looks excellent and there's hardly a scratch on the car except under the front bumper lip where it's been pulled over parking curbs too closely too many times. I cannot find a speck of rust anywhere under the car or inside the engine bay or in the trunk, I checked around the battery too. The top also looks new and the interior power leather seats and the rest of the interior are in good condition, the dash looks perfect, all windows are good, all other electronics are good, and there's a very nice and loud upgraded stereo system.
• The A/C has a new updated compressor and new lines and some kind of condensor installed under the rear deck lid, so the motor to raise the spoiler has been disconnected since this condensor is under it, however the air blows ice cold. Sounds like a good tradeoff assuming this does not affect engine cooling?
• It had a major service done earlier this year and the tires are close to new as well. Mechanically it appears to be very well maintained.

If the starting issue and the suspension issues are fixed I'm looking to drive it home for $15,950, however anything else like the gauges not working and the possible valve cover leak may be my responsibility, I'm still negotiating with the owner once he gets it in the shop tomorrow. I can have the shop inpect anything I want too, I'm thinking of perhaps getting them to do a leak down and compression test. Any opinions?...

Pictures here:
http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/...0,0,0&format=0

Ed Hughes

A-Salvage title
B-Conversion to something it isn't

Two things that will limit your ability to sell, if you need to, as few buyers will be looking to buy a car like this. It seems suspicious that so many things don't work-sign of a sloppy owner. What else is wrong, that you don't know about?

At $16k, I'm not sure this is a smoking deal. You should not buy a 911 without a PPI by someone who know these cars-that is the prevailing logic.

I couldn't get your link to open.

wildcat077

Well,at first glance it looks like a tastefully done conversion with nice attention to details !
There will be purists who will say that it's a butchered car ... bla,bla,bla ... not original anymore but for the price if all the mechanical issues are addressed by the seller and it passes a thorough PPI i would say it's an interesting buy at 12-13K !

At least you will know what you are getting !

Cheers !
Phil

theiceman

i would never buy that car for the reasons mentioned above . tiny market for frankenporsches , even smaller for salvaged . you better plan on being burried in it.
seller seems honest though. ppi is a must.

Hunt3R

Either Ed is right and he is a sloppy owner, or he just had bad luck having the starter go out right when I got there. The suspension issues he claims he had not noticed because he rarely drives it anymore and hasn't gone very far in it hence the reason he is selling it, he has other Porsches and BMW's and needs to "make room".

I figured it would be a hard sell to purists in the future, so I am going into this with the assumption that I will own it for a very long time. That's why I have some hesitation now that issues have shown up. Previously I had just talked with him and he sent me pics and video and claimed although not perfect, it was ready to drive, and he was very quick to offer to fix all of these issues. Either because he feels bad that he misled me, or because he's really happy to have finally found a buyer and doesn't want to lose me, perhaps both.

Personally, I think the "frankenporsche" conversion was done very well and it's a beautiful car, I would be perfectly happy with it barring any issues because as Ed said, what else is wrong that I don't know about. Before going there and discovering all these issues I believed him to be more knowledgeable and aware of the condition of his car and now I have doubts. PPI could possibly be done tomorrow, but I'm wondering if I even want to bother now. Having a hard time walking away though. I'm not totally convinced that I'm passing up a turd...

Hunt3R

Link to the pics should work, but here's a couple:

Amber Gramps

Well I like it, but would hold out for a real 993. The warped back window would just stick in my craw though.

Marc Gelefsky

Aside from the salvage title issues and frankenporsche thing my big fear would be troubleshooting issues as they come up in the future, all those 993 bits like the gauges and electrics in a old chassis. Who knows what's goin on there.
Also, are all the body panlels steel?
I used to see a very similar one around the nj shore years ago. Same color.

Hunt3R

yah all steel porsche oem body. Conversion was done in California, now lives in FL. Getting the gauges working are my biggest worry, I don't want that to balloon into thousands.

Ed Hughes

I'm certainly no purist.....but that car with its history is only going to appeal to a very limited market. On my phone, it looks like some of the door gaps are funky, but that could just be the shadows.

groovzilla

take a close look at the rear fender wells and compare the gaps between tire/fender and also the depth of each wheels on either side - very funky. spacers will help and the suspension i assume could be adjusted on the '85 chasis like the sc?

one of my issues with these frankenstein cars is that the rear wheel wells always look off or funky and the same is usually true with the fronts.

if you really want it and it checks out ok, offer him $14K and walk if he doesn't accept it

budge96

It looks to be a decent conversion with all factory componentry and parts a big plus+, if you are not the least bit mechanically inclined I would however steer away from a vehicle such as this ..
Even though it looks to be reasonably well done mechanically and cosmeticaly there are bound to be
hidden issues which will crop up particularly if you try and daily drive a vehicle of this nature.
When you go to take it in some where they will more than llikely give you a considerable hassle just
for the fact it's been updated and some components are not correct for the chassis year obviously.
Therefor unless you are ready to learn or get involved it could be more overyour head than you are
either financially or time wise prepared...
Other than those nigling little items it looks great...salvage chassis are perfect for this kind of update
gives a considerable value for not a great outlay.
I will say you wont find a 993 cab that nice at that price point,but it won't quite run with one either...
Bert

theiceman

..sorry but at the end of the day its a Porsche kit car ... dont mean to be harsh but it is what it is ..

kc chief

Devils advocate, but a real 993 would be 2-3X as much. Those issues are all workable, and if you can turn a wrench and accept that you might need to do more, well that Frankenporsche could be a fun ride. I would disagree with the others (i just spent 6 months shopping before buying my 85 Carrera), and say there is a market for cars like that, i saw lots come and go. If you make things right, there are tons of guys who would spend $20k on a porsche that looks like a $40k car. Let us know what you decide.

Ed Hughes

The operative word is real. Nice low-milers go for $30k+, but there are high milers, with less stories than this car popping up from time to time in the low $20's. Seems to me that the extra $6-8k would maybe be well spent. There was also a pretty santitary SC listed here last week for about $14k. That would make a much better 911 entry point, in my book. As long as deals like that are out there, these frankenPorsches will always pale in comparison.

The OP has been lied to too, or not told the whole story, and this is a salvage title, a black mark for most.

"Tons of guys" willing to drop $20k on a suspect Porsche with a salvage title? Not exactly.