5:04

Apples to Oranges. Comparing private shops building cars owned by individuals (the cyber evo is owned by a dentist btw) that are sub 100K with teams competing in FIA sanctioned events with multi million dollar budgets is a great and fair comparison.

Just to play along, I guess they should watch out. Australian V8 supercars is an FIA sanctioned event and has cars with excess of 600HP. The V8 track record of eastern creek raceway is 1:31.7301. The Cyber Evo did a 1:30.58 and is the fastest production car at eastern creek. These small fish shops seem to do okay abroad. Not to mention they don't have anywhere near the resources a V8 supercar team has.

Comparing Grand Am would be a joke. The US time attack cars are faster than those car and the US time attack cars are beaten by those from Japanese.

GT2 now that is where you'd probably have me, but then again none of the cars have raced on the same track so until that happens we won't know. I still feel comfortable saying that a GT2 cars may be quicker, but it wouldn't be by much. None of that is relavent to this conversation though.

Although I agree that the widebody may not outweigh the drag, the rest of the aero is very functional. The Vents are where they should be, the wings and splitters all look functional as well. That's only based off of just you can see from pictures though. How functional they are is hard to say without seeing the car although the times speak for themselves.

clutch-monkey

looks like RWB do narrow(er?) body styles too, interesting to see how they stack up.
although the massive flares seem to be their 'thing', as the narrower ones you could get done anywhere i'd imagine

5:04

RWB has all sorts of Porsches and other cars. They're just famous for their wild 911's. There are a couple of awesome RWB cars with ducktails, narrow bodies, or Turbo flares. One of my favorite RWB cars is the flat black one with turbo flares. It's not insanely wide and still looks amazing.

clutch-monkey

did they do a matte black S15 too?

raspberryroadster

http://www.rauh-welt.com/S15%20SILVIA.html

some other cars, including some narrow bodies, less wide wb's
http://www.rauh-welt.com/Other%20cars.html

whalebird

To each his own. Given the same tires, I will put a Singer on any track with one of these cars. The formula that works on a 911 is already written. The body work here is cosmetic in design. So far we've not seen anymore than pictures of these cars sitting still. Time attacks are great - I posted a vid of a Ford Fairlane on the Nurburgring that I will put up against any of these cars on the same track.
I'm by no means against this tuner and his cars. I enjoy and embrace enthusiasm in all its forms, but the technical merits of these cars remain to be seen and are unproven.
I doubt the language barrier has kept this tuner from selling his cars outside Japan. Some of the fastest 911s in the world are built here in the USA by teams owned by regular guys. They will go anywhere in the world and compete. That is the reason these tuner cars are not here. The porsche community is a smart bunch and are building cars that are world class performers. This tuner has a lot to do to come here and compete. These cars are going to be a hard sell here as you've found in this and the other threads.

5:04

I agree with most of what you're saying Whalebird, except for the Singer on track with the Rauh Welt cars but that's besides the point. Nakai has said he makes the cars look the way they do because he likes it. I just disagree with you that the merits aren't there. They're just not as widely known since Nakai is pretty reclusive and typically stays away from the spotlight, not to mention all of his cars are in Japan. It's also not a surprise that most in this thread aren't familiar with how strong the Japanese tuning scene is, so I wouldn't expect you to expect much from them. They're current fame was more of an accident than them trying to get their name out. A few pictures were taken that turned into a blog getting a feature which eventually turned into what it is now. They already have a huge fan base and tons of customer cars. RWB has been building cars for 20 years and is famous in Japan, however it's known that Nakai really only works on cars he wants to and prefers to do things his way. He's not interested in just making the fastest possible car and doesn't make cars to compete with other tuners/cars. I would compare Singer to RWB however in saying that they've both made cars that are amazing machines that can set amazing times up the track while being driven on the street.

I'm not taking away from the tuners and shops here in the USA. I think we all know they're more than capable, but this has little to do with another tuner being able to make a good car.

Also I agree that it'd be a hard sale for people in the US due to how many great shops we have out here and the large price tag since he only does complete cars.


If you'd like to see some in motion shots, here are a few for you.
http://speedhunters.com/archive/2009...ers-games.aspx
http://speedhunters.com/archive/2008...t-tsukuba.aspx
http://speedhunters.com/archive/2008...cuit-pt-1.aspx

Also here are some less extreme RWB cars
http://www.auto-otaku.com/home/2008/...elt-at-ts.html

whalebird

Nice. They do look better in motion than sitting still. lots of other cool pics in there too.

Ed Hughes

Indeed we are talking apples to oranges. Everyone has a place if they have customers willing to pay. The thing that got me going at the start here, was the seemingly crafted "marketing" statement about what was almost being billed as the second coming of Christ. I don't see the line forming.

Time attack does not excite most Porsche fanatics in the US, and probably most of the world. I'm a racing nut, my wife will attest to it. But watching cars try to set fast lap times in a time attack has no interest to me, save in qualifying for a 24 hour race.

And that is where I'm critical of these cars, I do not see any sort of endurance racing ability here. There is no way whatever-we-decided-to-call-him San's car can be driven from my house to Willow Springs and back in one piece with that bodywork. To me, that makes these show cars.

I don't think I'm in the minority in this thought, at least outside of Japan.

5:04

I understand where you're coming from on the marketing and free ads. This forum isn't cheap to run and the vendors pay a lot for this ad space. (I have my own parts business so I understsand the cost and respect that which is why I don't post any of that info here)

We can relate on being a racing nut. I hold a party at my home for every grand prix and the only tv I watch is racing which includes Grand Am, ALMS, GP2, Drifting, V8 Super cars and anything with 4 wheels and goes right and left.

I can appreciate where you're coming from, and I'm glad you haven't taken this as a personal attack. While I find Time Attack very interesting and fun to watch I understand that it's not a sport for the crowd. The only difference between an RTA event and a DE is the times the cars are running. Otherwise it's as exciting as going to a PCA track day.

You're also right about most people not being able to daily drive these types of cars. Granted my friends and I have DDed all of our gutted track cars or crazy show cars, but that's because we're crazy and too poor to afford another car haha. I guess I'm a little tainted on what a DD is since My 911 has no AC no heater no interior no radio with a whole lot of no's and I use that to get around.

Interestingly enough though, most of the cars RWB are dual duty and are driven on the streets and on the track. The roads of Japan are like glass from what I've heard so that could be why they're able to drive those cars there.

Also I know you're probably no interested, but if you read about Nakai he's a pretty interesting tuner that does things different from most in the same line of work.

whalebird

There is a peculiar air to the forum posts...kind of like a geurilla marketing blitz. Nobody is buying because this is where the well informed come to discuss 911s, not sell them. This is laid out in the forum rules and closely monitored.
So this discussion is only good for opinions - of which there are many on these cars.

To echo earlier posts, this forum would like to see a complete documented build. I like the "guys having fun with cars" approach much better than a "rare opportunity" approach. Just me...maybe, then again I know a 64 Ford Fairlane that can eat a lot of tuner cars.

rusnak

Anyone ever watch supercar shootout or whatever it's called on HDT? Paul Tracy and Tanner Faust or whatever the kid's name is compare supercars in timed events. It's entertaining because of the analytical approach that the kid takes vs Tracy's seat of the pants driving style. The kid comes from the drifting/ ricer crowd, but is a suprisingly good driver.

Sorry for getting bored with the topic. You guys were talking about an expensive fiberglass Porsche made in Japan, or something to that effect.

User 4221

Called as seen......

Shannon123

Showtime ? I thought I'd let the family sit in as well.

whalebird

Albeit a rerun, here is a rare opportunity to ride along in a car preped by a reclusive tuner working out of a barn. The projectionist should have the main feature spliced together shortly.
http://www.dogfightmag.com/2010/08/a...s-nurburgring/