whalebird

I'm not sure that proves they have it where it counts. I'm no expert, but the excesive wing/splitter treatment seems cosmetic. The book was written decades ago on the 911. Just because it was a second slower than a S2000 says very little.

raspberryroadster

gemballa....same category as rauh welt....? questionable imo....certainly not from styling perspective.
RWB remains 1 of if not the best euro tuner in japan (no small feat in car crazy country)....delivering hi quality body work / seriously enhanced engines from a small shop in kansai for huge prices.

GEMBALLA jewel!!

whalebird

Any mention of this "opportunity" over on pelican?

whalebird

Looks like the same agenda over there.

5:04

I guess I should preface this by saying that I have no personal agenda, nor am I part of the Rauh Welt coming to America. I do like the work that Nakai does, and it's a source of inspiration for me.


We're not talking about any S2000, we're talking about a track record holding technological marvel of an S2000 at a world famous track at the biggest tuner competition in the Japan, and the most competitive time attack in the world. The car has a dry carbon body, sequential trans, and a fully built race engine.

Here is in car footage (about 2:18) of the ASM car running in the 58's. Nakai's car runs mid/high 58's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCqWu-1lyUg



Here are some times since most people don't know what an average car does at Tsukuba A 997 GT2 1:03.26, Radical SR4 1.2 1:00.29, Ferrari Challenge Stradale 1:02.44, 964 Carrera RS 1:05.86 These are times of very fast cars driven by professional drivers.

Scottie

How is this an agenda? I am just here asking if any one else would like to partake and share in my good fortune. As previously stated, I am by no means benefiting from this at all. From all the talk about these cars, I assumed that other people would like to have their cars done while he is. Let's be StrekStrekStrekStreking clear here... I am footing the bill for all of this, so how am I soliciting whatsoever. I was offering a genuine opportunity, no quotes. Generosity is really not well received in this Rennlist society.

Ed Hughes

Yada, yada, yada. I think whale hit it on the head.

It seems these are big fish in a small pond (Japan) where one doesn't have the opportunity, as far as I know, to get in a car and just drive the he'll out of it. If these are he hot ticket, then why hasn't the pipeline to the US power/performance hungry market exist. And yes, although I'm not a fan of Gemballa, they have developed a worldwide market, which I just don't see with this Japanese guy.

It ain't all about the fastest lap. And if they didn't have the silly bodywork, they find seconds a lap, I'm sure. A factory GT3RS loses top speed to a GT3. Also, one of the reasons Yellowbird excelled in top speed when Ruf built her-based on a narrow body.

Now, how about that Singer product? A car you could drive every day. And fast. And on real roads. And you won't look like a tool.

5:04

I love the singer, but I doubt it would hold a candle to the Rauh Welt cars on the track, not to mention costing much more. That's your preference as well. I'd much rather be a "tool" in a Rauh Welt car than a normal guy in a singer. You also seem to be quite the aerodynamics expert. If you think they'd run those times without the significant aero they have then it's obvious why you feel how you do.

I was waiting for the "small fish" comment. Obviously you don't know much aboutthe Japanese car scene. Here's a track in the US that we can all relate to. Buttonwillow 13CW. This is a track where many cars are put against one another. The current record is unofficially held by the Sierra Sierra Evo 8 with a 1:43 which is an insane time. The car that held the record for 4 years was the HKS evo and is still the official record. Sierra Sierra was a Formula Atlantic team that switched to time attack, so they're a very capable car builder. At the world time attack challenge that car was beaten by the Tsukuba Super Lap Battle Winner the Cyber Evo. I wouldn't exactly call the Japanese tuners "small fish". When it comes to tuning cars.

raspberryroadster

i think regardless of what ed says - as to japan being small market for "power hungry"....where routinely the tuners provide 1000hp supra's/skylines & in the the case of RWB will likely spank most here.....buying an existing RWB, off the jpnese web or perhaps from his lot....put it in a container & ship it over makes more sense than paying big time (way plus 20k) for the flares, suspension....without engine enhancement in a diy build.

good luck, looking forward to seeing 1 of the most exciting 911's on the forum.

clutch-monkey

x2
i saw the cyber evo win out over the sierra sierra car at Eastern Creek, crazy car.
a lot of the other jap tuners there had some serious gear as well.
i agree with this, looks like ~$22k for the body work??

raspberryroadster

huh...while in japan had 2 bimmers (1 quite well modified indeed), plus
late model alfa gta which regretfully you will never see and they stretched their legs regularly....japan has its own very large tuner/power adder market
both for domestics & euros .

its not exactly a piker on the global market....bmw stats are easier to access but porsche (always lousy with info providing) may be more dynamic in respect to value of jpnese market ....bottom line euro producers would not cut it without nippon (trust me, no do not! was an investment banker in asia for plus 10yrs)
BMW Sales world wide below ...jp remains huge marketplace....you gotta get out of fishbowl ed,

and where the car markets are thereby are the tuners...lots of world class bimmer, alfa, porsche tuners in japan for that reason....i guarantee its not a small pond, BUT in many cases it is very domestic because of language issues(as in the case of RWB, only jpnese and his local market is plenty big enough)


here's cut & paste of bimmers regional sales....

Region 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000
Europe 416.430 420.470 451.000 483.400
Austria 11.200 10.100 10.300 . .
Belgium 16.200 15.000 15.000 . 22.400
Germany 227.500 228.100 232.500 . 240.600
Finland 1.050 1.100 1.280 . .
France 28.200 24.000 28.500 . 33.900
Great Britain 56.800 63.700 64.200 . 68.300
Italy 35.200 35.200 36.300 . 43.900
Netherlands 10.800 10.700 12.000 . 14.500
Norway 1.580 2.770 2.780 . .
Sweden 3.300 4.000 4.800 . .
Swiss 11.500 11.700 11.800 . .
Spain 13.100 14.100 18.500 . 27.600
.
USA 105.800 122.500 131.559 154.970 189.423
Australia 7.900 9.000 9.300
Brazil 3.000 3.300 2.290 1.250
Japan 36.300 36.500 33.500 35.900
Canada 5.700 7.100 7.701 9.011 11.000
Mexico 1.130 1.350 1.940 3.600
New Zealand 910 800 730
South Africa 16.000 13.500 13.400 16.200
South Korea 1450 1.220 320 1.600
China 1400 3.800
Total 488.820 493.240 699.400 751.272 822.000

source of figures: BMW AG



.

5:04

Yeah, it was sad that FX and Revolution didn't go though. I would have liked to see America's and Japan's fastest RWD's go at it.


Also 22K sounds like a lot, but after you look at it it's really not that much.

RWB coilover suspension with install 3-5K

Custom SSR wheels and Tires 4-5k

Custom Front bumper, Rear bumper, side skirts, hood, decklid, and wing. 3-5K

Paint job from a Nakai himself 5k

Cost for me to do the body work inside and out/get out here 3-5k.

If it was for just the body I'd agree it's pretty pricey, but if you did this yourself to the caliber that he does you probably wouldn't be saving too much unless you did the work yourself.

Still, I'd probably rather freight a car to Japan and ship it back when he's done. I still may do that one day.

Ed Hughes

I guess the incumbents in some of the world's road racing series: ALMS, Grand-Am, Le Mans, FIA GT, etc all need to worry about the Evos that are coming to dominate the racing stages around the world.

Ed Hughes

No aero expert here....simply relating what Porsche has learned over many years regarding widebodies. Those over-sized flares do not provide aero adhesion on the race track other that what wider rubber can go inside them. But, at some point, the added wind resistance of the exposed surface will bite you in the rear and you get diminishing returns. Doubling one's speed creates 4 times the resistance to any exposed surface.

clutch-monkey

it would be interesting to see how the cars in those events would fare when built more along the lines of 'street car based' events like time attack..