floete

Would this be a penny wise pound foolish car to consider? It's an 83 SC for ... $7,500.

Here's some stuff the owner has to say about it: bought it in 95 from the second owner. selling because he now has three kids, no time, and loves his Mercedes. 95k miles when bought, 114k miles now. he says: "The car is in amazing mechanical shape. Strong engine with all new wiring, tuned up, plugs etc. New tires, new brakes, new Bilstein Shocks." Shifts great!

Exterior has some paint chips with surface rust in em and a little bubbling paint around the edges. Dash has cracks. Seats have splits. Headliner is shot.

Has a/c, functioning unknown, and a moon roof.

Unknowns: upgraded tensioners, pop-off valve, and headstuds. They weren't done during his tenure and he doesn't have records for the two owners before him.

Let's see. One caliper is tight and it needs new front brakes.

I think that's it. He said he's been flooded with calls but I'm local and I could probably get to it first.

Then again, after writing this, I've sort of talked myself out of it.

What do you think? Should I go see it or run the other way? I mean, I guess the big issue are the needed mechanical upgrades. Without those, well, you know ...

These are all the pix he has right now:

GothingNC

I would say it's good deal if it's is mechanically sound as you say.

Worst that could happen is you end up with a parts car and recoup a little more.

Good luck

John

floete

thanks. and, yes, a PPI goes without saying. but while a deep PPI might reveal any current broken headstuds, for instance, it can't predict whether it'll happen tomorrow, next month or never. i guess that'd be my major concern... the unknowable future...

assuming no broken headstuds right now, is there any reason to think that if it's made it this far, it'll make it a lot farther without breaking them?

whalebird

The known past can be a deal breaker to. PPI as you well know. I would look for collision/paint damage. If it checks out - probably a good deal. I like it.

race911

Do you want THIS car? If so, you can PPI all you want, but someone who does want it will buy it quickly without contingencies at that price if it's at all cosmetically decent. Can't tell you how many 911s I've picked up over the years while others wavered.

floete

Ken: I agree with you. But you're knowledgeable about these cars, while I am not. In my case, a PPI would almost certainly be manatory...

whalebird

Good advise from a savvy buyer. See if you can lock him in with a deposit.

Peter Zimmermann

Rust is always a concern, but less so if there is no rust in the lower corners of the windshield and back window.

If some of the needed work (brakes, etc.) can be done by you, look at it as a fun, weekend project. If you have to have a professional do everything, then do the PPI, check the head studs, and perhaps negotiate the price downward a bit. Budget $3K for interior repairs and go from there.

Pictures can deceive, but this looks like a car that might be worth considering. That said, it'll still probably be a $20K car when all is said and done.

race911

Yeah, I am. But I wasn't always. In fact, 30 years ago today I was a naive 18 year old buying a '68 911 on little more than faith. It's been an entertaining ride......... In any case, if you're not comfortable picking apart the cosmetics of a car in a 5 minute walkaround, then maybe a (near) 30 year old 911 isn't the right car to jump in on at the bottom feeding end.

There's the key. But I guarantee you that if this guy is slammed with inquiries, he'll quickly get that he's underpriced. And the first thing I've found about buying underpriced cars is that the first one who shows up with the cash wins. Deposits/contigencies/PPIs be damned. Now I may be showing my skepticism in humanity; but you lose a decent deal or two to someone more determined and you learn to play the game.

Ultimately, I stand by my comment that THIS is a car YOU want.

floete

Great stuff, guys, thanks.

In a sense, I"m not sure the car is all that underpriced. Peter Z says to budget $3k for interior. Okay, if you do that, you're now at $10.5k. Hey, that puts it halfway to the magical mark of $20K. Woo woo!

Peter Zimmermann

Very, very true! I know of a handful of cars that sold that way, and a surprising number turned out to be winners. It's almost like having a sense that something might be good vs an initial reaction to run from something. You snooze, you lose.

I looked at a very-overpriced Weissach (Plat met) '80SC a few years ago. I was so disgusted with the car, which was all there, because of the way it was miss-represented I made a low-ball offer of $8K. If I had paused a moment I could have probably bought it for $10K, had it painted and had the interior re-done for another $10K, and had one helluva special car. That one got away.

floete

okay, i've decided against this one. too much work for me at the moment. also, another one i like better (though you might not: it's a 77 911s) just popped up elsewhere. Here's what it is (at around $10k):

80k miles on it. here's what the very nice owner (who has about 11 other pcars and has been messing with them for 30 years) wrote me about it: engine has only 2500 miles since rebuild. std crank, case, new valve guides, chains, rails, CIS S cams. and rings on very good P&Cs. they were the alusil not nikisil type. and there are no door dings, I meant that there was minor door dings before I painted the doors and quarter. There was a little work to the engine lid that I did, but it looks good. the doors, rear quarters, engine lid and tail and front and rear bumpers are repainted, the rest is original. There is no body putty other than very minor door dings in the entire car. I've had it stored inside for the past 20 years. It has the rigid oil lines and a nice cooler. the engine is a low miles (60K)72 block 911/51, opened up for 2.7 P&Cs, time certs, good oil pressure, CIS runs like a clock. carrera tensioners, turbo covers. AC is intact, but has a leak. good tires brakes, great tranny, no issues, ready to drive across the country."

Obviously, it's got a non-number-matching engine in it; that doesn't bother me, as i'm not that kind of purist; plus, it's a 77, and does anybody really car about numbers matching on a 77? Seems like he's taken care of the issues on the engine. new clutch. comfy but not stock recaros. great headliner and good rubber. dash is fine. was a semi-automatic but he put a 5 speed out of a 76 in it. Okay, so it's had a couple of different years smushed into it. But it's a very pretty car and I like the pre-SC look better than anything that came after. Plus, the owner seems to really know his stuff and has no problem with me getting a PPI w/ leakdown. Yeah, I know it's probably not an around-$10k car but it sure is purdy and i think i might have to investigate further w/ a PPI .... unless you tell me I'm crazy. (pix to follow)

Sorry to hit you all up with two of these in one day but seems like when it rains it also pours ...

GothingNC

Is the 77 911s the one just listed on Pelican?

John

floete

no it's not .

pix:

floete

well, here is what my pal wrote me last night about the car. his logic kinda puts the damper on my enthusiasm. damn, and i was just about to the pull the trigger on a PPI. what do the rest of you think?

he writes:

"OMG...Sorry friend, but I can kind of go along with a nice 76 912E, but you are on your own with any [mid-year] 911. Every recommendation I have ever read for the past 20 years says stay away from them! The price difference between an SC and 74-75-76-77 isn't that great to have to deal with the infirmities of those years.

"Did you by chance burn your fingers on the stove when you were a kid after your mother told you not to touch it?

"The engine is crap and the repainting is ridiculous. Why not just do the right thing and repaint the whole car??... a 77 isn't worth keeping some paint original and other parts newly painted. All you will end up with in 2 years is a miss-matched bunch of panels. I like the yellow too, but run Forrest run!"

----------------

Okay, I see his point, but I really do like the look of the midyears far far far *far* better than those cars coming after. And I want/need a galvanized body. That leaves me with 76-77 as my only two years to look at, , with the 912e and the 911s as my two options in those years. Setting aside the paint question for a sec, how far would a PPI w/ leakdown go toward telling me what shape the engine is in?