whiskey52

ran the Carolinas region DE at CMP, 1st time on Toyo RA1s and 17 in rims. Big Difference form the 16 Fuchs and Riken tires. now it looks like some serious suspension upgrades are required to keep the tires on the road. I have a stock '81 911SC with turbo tierods and Bilstein SuperSports. every else is stock. the car gets limited street use and will eventually become a track car. I realize theres a couple of thousand $ I can throw at this problem, but I have to budget minded and do this in stages. question is: what's the best sequence to upgrade the suspension parts? torsion bars & bushings, then swaybars, then adjustable camber. swaybars first??
any help appreciated, Thanks

911S3.6

Suspension/chassis set up is an integrated system One has to take into account, the car's weight, hp, tire-wheel combination, brakes, etc... Then considerations of how is the car used and going to be used.

Do NOT do this piecemeal. You need to have an "overall" plan, even if you do it in successive steps.
There are a lot of crapmobiles out there that were cobbled together from the "advice" of many.
IMHO, from experience, I would consult someone who has years of experience building suspension, chassis, etc...for 911's - Do it once , do it right.
I used Steve Weiner @ Rennsport Systems, as have a bunch of other satisfied track junkies.
www.rennsportsystems.com

good luck,

Nick

84_Carrera

I asked Steve Weiner to put together a kit for me (I did the install).

I did the turbo tie rod ends, new balljoints, new bushings all around, replaced the A-Arm & spring plate bushings with Elephant poly-bronzes, converted from Boge struts to Bilstein HD's & Sports, new strut mounts & hardware, etc., replaced the torsion bars with 22/29mm hollows, and did new heim'd droplinks. Did drilled zimmermann rotors all around at the same time. There's a couple of pics in the 2 threads I did from July '07 timeframe around here.

JackOlsen

If budget is your concern, then go back to street tires. You'll spend a lot more on R compound tires (even RA1s) over the next decade than you will on suspension upgrades. And the improvement that the tires give you will just get tossed in a dumpster once the money's spent. An improved suspension is something you can keep.

KC911

I too used Steve Weiner's advice and as a source for several items when I went through my suspension several years ago. I also did all the work except alignment. Can't go wrong there!

Keith
'88 CE coupe

fasteddie99

+2 on Steve W. Transformed the car!

earlyapex

I would do as Jack recommended and go back to street tires. Drive your stock car and street tires for a year, look around the paddock, attend local races, and talk to everyone. The end point determines the modifications and your budget. A couple of thousand dollars may not do it so be very careful that you do not do something twice. I have been down this road.

Steve Weiner is an excellent source for information and for parts. I got all of my suspension, brake, and transmission parts from him.

JCP911S

My $.02 FWIW...

What driver level are you? I'd generally stay with a stock set-up until you are at least White Run group... You'll learn more.

IMHO novice erivers in full-trick track cars have a hard time learning the limits of the car... in effect they just have "too much car"

Once you decide to do a track suspension, go full boat as has been suggested... do it all at once, and go to the end-game... people who do street/track set-ups generally end up re-doing everything... twice the $$$

There is no such thing as a "street/track" set-up... what's good for the street is bad for the track and vice-versa... anything in between is bad for the street AND bad for the track.

Edward

Lots of wisdom already shared here ...don't know why I'm even adding.

I agree with going to street tires until you can throw the car with abandon into a turn and still come out like a champ (ok, I hyperbolize, but you get the point). The reason is sticky tires, like a good suspension, covers a multitude of driver's sins. Bad input, early turn in, sloppy brake/throttle transition get masked by good tires (and lots of HP ...ask the Vette guys ). So once you get really proficient with driving a car shod with tires with a lower threshold, going back to R-Comps will make you THAT much faster. Not to mention it is a whole lot safer since screwing up at street-tire speed is more forgiving than screwing up at R-comp speeds.


That said, a good suspension can also assist you in that learning curve. Stiff torsions, firm shocks, fresh bushings, and good sways all work together as a system to give you a car that not only handles well, but handles predictably. Not to mention that changing one will require some degree of disassembly of the other (well, except the sways), so it is much cheaper in the long run to do it all once. There are LOTS of folks who have found their suspension "recipe" that works for them ...get their advice and make your choices. Try the DE/Race forum, as there are lots of great folks there. And without doubt, pros such as Steve W., Pete Z., and others can give you their expertise through the experience of many clients' cars ...now that's priceless info to heed. FWIW, I have my simple suspension recipe and it works great for me, but I paid close atention to what others who have already gone that road had to say when I was putting the pieces together. Hope this helps ya

Edward

Edgy01

Keep in mind that these are terrific performing automobiles in stock form. But remember,--your car is a lot older than when I was driving them when they were nearly new. Much of the suspension has aged like the rubber bushings and then there is metal fatigue. I would return it to fresh stock configuration and use some high quality street tires and then evaluate YOUR driving to figure out what is best to do. Get with some local gear-heads and let them watch your driving and also let them DRIVE your car and make suggestions. A lot of this is the track or road course that you are on, and its surface. Make your changes slowly,--one component at a time. Then you will know what is affecting your set up and performance. Suspensions are extremely complex things and I have watched more IDIOTS screw up a fine automobile because they think they know more than a bunch of guys in Zuffenhausen and Weissach.

KeithC2Turto

I understand doing things in stages.

Looks like you have been doing DE's a bit.

You already have shocks so I assunm you have the height and ballance ok. I did my own work but spent $700 getting my alignment and corner ballance right. If I make a change now that would be a sunk cost so know your goals and where you are going.

If I had a flat pice of concrete I would have bought or barrowed a scale and done my own string alignment.

Why can't you use the R tires w the stock suspention?

It is not hard to get 3 deg neg in the rear which is where you need it. The front can take some effort but is not as critical if you get the air presure right.

You can go cheap and trim the insides off your strut top plates and elongate the holes for 1.5-. Add the steering rack spacer kit if you have not. Next jump is rased and decambered front struts w a bump steer spacer kit at the end of the tie rods.

I would think with the sticky R1's you next jump would be brake cooling depending on your drivein style.

If it were me and I were looking for the next incriment it would be spings & bushings. I find my stock suspention interesting in learning handleing dynamics but there shure is a lot of drimatic weight shifts with braking and transissitioning with linked corners.

You can come back latter and do the sway bars if you feel you need them.

I am not an expert but with that much rear tire you might want to try 22/29 springs for a street track set up.

If you are not going to drive much on the street much you could go w the 23/31's and stay w the stock sway bars a while. Having your shocks revalved would be a good idea if you do this.

But check with the experts.

Some go big sway bars before springs. This approach keeps one from toutching there alignment & CB and make for a lot of tunablilty. You still end up with a lot of weight transfer under braking with this approach though.

You know this but before doing any of this check the rules of the group. Some mods or a total of a given amount of mods can put you in a class that is much faster.