Dear Rennlist Members,
Recently, member Konrad Alvarino has blanketed the entire Rennlist with a grossly skewed tale of woe that pretty much paints Windward Performance Products, Inc. (and myself) as the "anti-christ" in the Porsche performance arena.
For those of you who do not wish to read an extremely long post (which this is) let me just say here and now that there are two sides to every story, and his does not even closely approximate the truth. He did suggest that (until I hung up on him) I had been helpful and courteous, and that is true. I will not, however, subject myself to ranting, raving, and profanity from any customer. I will hang up every time, and if you can't handle that sort of rejection, then there is no shame in therapy.
I am now going to present the truth.
This regrettable situation did not unfold at all as Mr. Alvarino suggests, and he has neglected some very important points, and lied about others.
First, let it be known that he threatened me with a serious Rennlist flaming if we did not bow to his completely unreasonable demands, and he obviously made good on his promise. Unfortunately, he has shown neither honor nor shame in his post regarding his deliberate misrepresentation of the facts.
As many in the Porsche community may remember, there was a "drought" of H&R coil-over kits in the U.S. for awhile. During this time, Mr. Alvarino wished to obtain one for his 993 Twin Turbo. Upon checking, I was able to inform him that we had one H&R coil-over #29590-2 in stock that was missing the spherical-bearing upper camber plates and rear upper shock mounts. I offered to furnish the very nice E.R.P. units in their place for no additional charge. (Our customers will be familiar with the E.R.P. line--they are arguably some of the nicest components available, and are much more expensive than their H&R counterparts.)
He not only agreed, but thanked me, stating that this was a much better alternative than waiting the 6-8 weeks that H&R was quoting to get more of these systems in from Germany.
The system was sent to him, and what ensued was a nightmare. He did not understand how to install it, and was quite indignant and upset when he found out that the car had to be re-aligned and corner balanced after the installation of the suspension! At this time, I suggested (in the nicest, friendliest manner that I could) that he may be a bit over his head on this project and should consult a local shop for installation.
He then got mad and wanted to ship it back. I agreed, based on the assumption that it was in "as-new" condition. When I received it, it was inspected and found that it was very scratched, dented, and not saleable at all, let alone as new. (He did not even do us the courtesy of using original packaging--it was simply all thrown together in a big box with no packing materials, and arrived in horrible condition, ripped, with bushings and hardware dropping out of the mutilated packaging.)
I called him, and told him that it would not be accepted. After numerous phone calls, we agreed on a compromise--I would honor the refund in the form of a store credit to be used toward another purchase, minus the money necessary to replace the missing and damaged components. He agreed.
It should also be noted (and our customers are all aware of this) that prior to shipping any order, the customer signs off on a confirmation sheet that clearly states our return policy and re-stock fees.
Unfortunately, after agreeing to this, he did a chargeback on his credit card. We have submitted all documentation to both banks, and (after extensive exchanges) both banks ruled in our favor regarding the re-stocking fee, having clearly illustrated Mr. Alvarinos signature agreeing to these terms for this sale.
Mr. Alvarino neglected to mention that he already fought this battle and lost, and the whole situation could have been avoided completely by adhering to our agreement.
Instead, he has chosen to take the low-road.
As he said, I did my best to remain courteous to him throughout this ordeal, and I (and everyone else here) takes customer service seriously. We are NOT however, LLBean or Nordstroms, and Mr. Alvarino was not trying to return a sweater. There are some different issues at stake when it is a custom coil-over system for a $100K Porsche 993 Twin Turbo, and I did my best to keep him happy, but that does not extend to accepting a $2800.00 box of shrapnel for a refund. He did well to even recieve a partial credit, and we now have a scratched, dented, coil-over system that will probably set on our shelves for quite some time.
Sorry for all that this did not work out, but realize that anyone, at any time, can post anything they wish and (unfortunately) people will crawl out from under rocks everywhere to become party to a good, old fashioned Rennlist flaming.
I sincerely hope you don't believe everything you read on the internet.
The Rennlist is an invaluable resource for any Porschephile, and it is too bad that it is used as a forum to spread lies and grind axes, and not for the wealth of technical information and experience that it contains.
If you need performance items for a Porsche, we will continue to go above and beyond to provide the best products, the best service, the lowest prices and the best technical support available in the industry.
As for you, Mr. Alvarino, I sincerely hope you find another purveyor with whom to build a constructive relationship that will enhance your enjoyment of owning that very special Porsche.
Thanks for your attention, and sorry for the length of this post.
Best Regards,
Dan
Windward Performance Products, Inc.

 

Dan,
You convinced me! I might add at least you let tempers wane before writing. The
civilized way laundry should be aired.
Keith
p.s. do you sell more than one chip for an 87 3.2?

 

Yes, it is true that every story has two sides. But that does not explain why 'Slevy951', 'David J. Harrington', and 'Arthur' also expressed grave dismay towards your company. There is also this story from 'Jim (97C2S)'. It is rumored that the reason you no longer carry the Fikse line of products is because of your poor customer service.

Also, it appears to me that almost no one today realizes that communication takes 2 people. When talking to people, especially on the phone, it is very important to make sure that the other person knows what you mean. There are many ambiguities in the English language, and it is both parties responsibility to know what the other one means.

Now, with all that said, I have never heard of one of these incidents at Paragon Products. So maybe you should try to be just a little more like Paragon.

 

You know, I read Konrad's posts and I didn't see him painting Windward as an 'Anti Christ'. Moreover, until your reply here I hadn't noticed the posts at all. But your letter here drew attention to the issue! Ironic huh? I haven't even met the man, Konrad, but his posts seem fair! Frankly, I found your reply here:
(a) used inflammatory language, "horrible condition", "skewed tale of woe", "nightmare";
(b) contained accusations of lying;
(c) contained contradiction i.e., the item was "not saleable at all" however, you admit it'll sit on the shelf for some time, hence, it's there to be resold, so obviously it IS saleable.
(d) insulting "if you can't handle that sort of rejection, then there is no shame in therapy."

I looked your reply over twice. I didn't even spend time looking it over a third time for more evidence because it's one-sidedness, nastiness and crooked reasoning made me want to puke. It's clear one party, the 993 owner, was at least 'fair'. Your reply above is, in my opinion, petty on an item of that value, especially when the item wasn't perfect anyway. So is a 25% restocking fee. That seems outrageous, even for "shrapnel" that you'll resell anyway.

You said:

"The Rennlist is an invaluable resource for any Porschephile, and it is too bad that it is used as a forum to spread lies and grind axes, and not for the wealth of technical information and experience that it contains."

I can see it's YOU that's grinding the axe and misusing the forum. And I can empathise with why this customer might have raised his voice at you.

 

There are many high quality parts houses with great customer service. I'll go elsewhere. Why take a chance, lifes to short.

 

I think in reality there are three sides to every story.

Being in business myself, and doing online sales with customers all over North America, I have learned (both from buying and selling) that one has to be very specific on every detail. Especially Big Ticket custom items. I now make sure to get confirmation by emails as well as telephone verbal OK's.

No matter how carefull the customer or the business is, mistakes are always going to happen.

Getting any business online for me is bonus, and I do my best to make sure the customer is happy with the goods they order. That said , some customers cannot be made happy no matter what is done, online or not.

It's too bad for all for what has happened for all sides. Bad PR for sure, but mistakes do happen with everyone.

 

I can hardly believe I see this. I called Windward when I got first got my car and the person who I spoke with (I think the owner)was was such an arrogant @$#hole. I wondered to myself how these guys stayed in business.
Sorry Dan, you're SOL when it comes to customer service.
Try Vertex in Florida, very pleasant people to deal with.

 

how could you not notice? they've only plastered every forum on the board with this...

 

Wow! I came back from a nice weekend out of town , and read this post. I would like to clarify a few points in Dan's email which are different from the truth:
1. I never used yelled or used profanity in my conversation with Dan. It is not my style.
2. The "offer" to send non-H&R parts was never made. The parts arrived at my house and I called Dan to clarify what I received. It was only then I found out I had differnt parts.
3. I am not a certified mechanic, but there are people on this list who can vouch for my technical abilities. I feel that I am quite capable of installing a suspension system on my own. I do work on my car because it is fun, and it is relaxing to me, not because I have to. The bit about not know the car would need an alignment? Please....
4. The parts were shipped back in original containers in the condition I received them in. The mounts shipped to me were not new, and even had evidence of rust. Can't do that in a few days. Interesting that Dan mentions that he called and told me the return was unacceptable, as this was never discussed in the multiple times I called them. I have e-mails traded with Dan making reference to the received shipment and that the $2800 credit "must have gone through, and I will fax you the credit voucher". None of this was ever done. I guess these emails were not part of the documentation they submitted to the banks....
5. There was no phone call in which store credit was discussed. I was holding off on any purchase until a full credit was received into my account, as any reasonable person would. Again, I have emails where I am asking for credit back n my AMEX dating to mid May.
6. A partial credit has been received in my account, but I am still owed the re-stocking fee. This is the first time I have asked AMEX for this, as I have NEVER had problems with suppliers. No finality to this issue at this time.
7. As for the personal insults (no Honor, shame, lies, crawl under the rocks, etc.) They will remain unanswered by me.
Guys, the purpose of my original post was to share with the list my bad experience with a parts dealer. I have nothing personal to gain from this (exept maybe to get my money back). With several choices for suppliers of parts, why should anybody risk the potential trouble associated with doing business with questionable suppliers? I for one wish I had read about Jim's experience before my purchase. I will continue to share notable experiences with the list, and I hope other people will too.

 

Good thing we have Pelican Parts to order from, never had any problems with those guys, there GREAT!!!!! As for Windward, I never ordered from them and I never will. Anyone who owns a business that stirs up more trouble by throwing gas on the fire is an idiot (what a MORON)!!! I don't care if they give great service or not 9 out of 10 times, with my luck I'd be the 10th person every time,LOL!!!! I wish there was a board just for customer service feedback on all the parts dealers so I could get an idea how I'm going to get treated.. Again, that's why I like Pelican Parts, that guy Wayne (I think he's one of the owners) even takes part in some of the forum's that he runs with good advice an always trying to help you even if he doesn't get the sale. That's the kind of customer service I think we all want and deserve no matter who you deal with.
That's my two cents!!

 

It as if the disputing parties require a judge and they go to the boards and the P-car enthusiasts for a verdict.

All hail free speech as this has allowed both parties to air their side of the story.

Any Public relations company will tell you, the WORST thing you can do is critise your customers.

Winward were wrong in reacting to this, the only thing I can think of now is that Winward have poor customer service (this may, or may not be a gross generalisation - who would know). Would this have happened if Winward had shut up -probably not.

It is very male to prove that we were right, small business with a focussed clientel can't afford to be male, but must be commercial.

I too am a small business owner. From time to time we have complaints - the only lesson I can pass on is to solve them before they become out of hand.

Focus on the bigger picture - take a loss and move on. One unhappy customer with a PC, a forum and an audience is equal to about 500 potential customers.

It no longer matters who is right, memories are long!

 

I think it's regretable that a dispute of this nature has to be "aired" on the Internet. There are just too many improbables on both sides of this story. And once it degenerates into name calling and innuendo, justice will never be done.

Respectfully, I would offer that Mr. Alvarino should take up his claims with a local, consumer complaints agency. If they are valid, and supported with actual documentation, he should expect some fair resolution to this case.

As for the merchant in question, your business will live or die with how you conduct your dealings with customers. It's nothing more complicated than that.

 

Being in retail. Unless you are also manufacturer with an endless patent.. LOL.

All you have is service.

Pricing may help you stay in business with poor service. But only for a short time.

In this internet community of P-car enthusiasts. One poorly handled transaction will probably cost you, 500 potential or existing customers.

In my retail environment .
I figure if we have a customer leave disgruntled or unresolved I've lost 20 customers.

Then you do the math backwards. How much did I spend last month to bring in new customers ? I’m not saying that I always give into the customers always right. But one must look at the BIG PICTURE not just this one transaction.

My 2c.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DJB:
[QB]It as if the disputing parties require a judge and they go to the boards and the P-car enthusiasts for a verdict.

Me the judge , find Windward Performance Products, Inc., GUILTY!!!!!! Settlement will consit of a full refund and a big I'm sorry to Konrad 993tt. Also, a public apology to the Rennlist board.

 

Hello

Same procedure as every year ?
http://boards.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/9...e.pl?read=2577

So I can repost my last years mail:

Well i know those situations, some costumers will never be satisfied or canīt understand what you where talking about. Costumer is King no doubt but only if he deals alike, i will not serve an Adolf Hitler.

I invented an simple solution for an other Problem but helping there too. In an small company you have to work on the cars and on the phone, especially if it comes to those "tricky" questions or very special orders. Normaly hanging under the enginebay with greased up hands an soroundet by everything ecxept an working pen and greasefree Paper you crabble out and focus a bit on the problem and decide if it is worth for an short answer or if you call back later. Sometimes your short answer takes an hour. So after you finished you try the concentrate on the phonecall and what was the results of it and your memory fools you about details. Also back on the car you doublecheck all Bolts again as you loose the line there too.

One fine Day i hooked my old Reelmachine on the phoneoutlet and from then on I never tried to remember anything and could work on cars during phoncalls.

In the evening you play back and listen to the phoncall write down what is ordered in what condition an what you promised to do too. Also you can control yourself where did the costumer couldnīt follow or why did he ask such an dump qestion or heel why did i promise the imposible ? This is working as an very good feedback.

The other point is if the costumer doesnīt remenber his phonecall you can give him an little "reminder". But check your local lawīs in germany the law is very restrict makeing phonecalls puplic and normaly the first sentence you have to say is: "Hello, this call is recorded for intern backup. If you donīt aggree to it, hang up we arnīt interesstet in doing buisines with you".

This will save a lot of waistet Time and money anyhow.

Grüsse