1988 911- 930 brake update questions
10-09-2002, 08:22 AM
#1
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1988 911- 930 brake update questions
I've a 1988 911 w/ a 964 3.6 ltr, After running a couple of fast laps at DE events, my brakes start to fade and after bleeding the fluid and changing brake pads, they are still spongy, solution is to upgrade my brake system due to the increased power vs stopping load. a 1988-1989 930 brake system was recommended, any suggestions on modification needs or is this a bolt on task? do I need a updated M/C? any other suggestions will be appreciated. many thanks
10-09-2002, 08:43 AM
#2
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You can read several articles on brakes and upgrading to 930 Turbo brakes for the '89 and earlier 911's on tech.rennlist.com under 911's. You should also consider adding brake cooling, where you pipe air into the eye of the rotor. Several vendors offer scoops that attach under the a-arm with a short hose to a cannister aiming air into the rotor. You'll also need hub blockoffs (thin stainless or al. sheet) to keep the air from flowing out of the hubs (or conversely to keep the air in the rotor). You're probably already using a high quality brake fluid, like ATE Type 200 or Super Blue, which has a higher boiling point than others.
10-09-2002, 09:30 AM
#3
Nordschleife Master
David,
I just went through this on my 1989 Turbo. With the upgraded power and additional speed the car can now carry, I was starting to fade my brakes as well. You'll want to make sure that you've done everything you can to cool your brakes, simply bolting on larger ones might not acheive what you want. Make sure your pads are new, brake fluid has been changed to something like ATE Super Blue or ATE Type 200, or Motul.
Then I'd purchase a brake cooling kit which ducts air to the eye of the rotor (About $325). There are two kits, one has plastic ducts (OG Racing) and another one that is metal. I purchased the metal one and can be found at Imagine Auto (913 310-9927) or Rennsport Systems (503 244-0990) here on Rennlist. I would also put the hub block off plates to make sure all the air is going through the rotors (About $40). These plates are made by Smart Racing Products and can also be purchased from the two shops I mentioned above. The brake cooling should reduce your rotor temperatures about 150 degrees F.
Good luck.
I just went through this on my 1989 Turbo. With the upgraded power and additional speed the car can now carry, I was starting to fade my brakes as well. You'll want to make sure that you've done everything you can to cool your brakes, simply bolting on larger ones might not acheive what you want. Make sure your pads are new, brake fluid has been changed to something like ATE Super Blue or ATE Type 200, or Motul.
Then I'd purchase a brake cooling kit which ducts air to the eye of the rotor (About $325). There are two kits, one has plastic ducts (OG Racing) and another one that is metal. I purchased the metal one and can be found at Imagine Auto (913 310-9927) or Rennsport Systems (503 244-0990) here on Rennlist. I would also put the hub block off plates to make sure all the air is going through the rotors (About $40). These plates are made by Smart Racing Products and can also be purchased from the two shops I mentioned above. The brake cooling should reduce your rotor temperatures about 150 degrees F.
Good luck.
10-09-2002, 10:44 AM
#4
David,
Check out the tech articles recommended by Bill Gregory. If I'm not mistaken, Bill may have written one or more articles about this conversion.
The conversion to early 930 brakes works very well, although, if you are still using your Fuchs 16" wheels, you will need to use small (like 1/4 inch or less) wheel spacers in the rear and, perhaps, switch to 7" 951 wheels up front (same offset, but made to allow for the 951's bigger brakes). If you are already running with 17" rims on the track, you probably won't need the spacers.
Yes, you will need to go with the 930 master cylinder. Since you'll have bigger brakes you'll need to pump more fluid. So, essentially, it's not just the brakes, but a 930 braking system that you want to install.
I also have a cool brake kit installed which I purchased from AJ/USA. I experience virtually no fade at all.
Good luck.
Richard
'87 Carrera-3.6L
Check out the tech articles recommended by Bill Gregory. If I'm not mistaken, Bill may have written one or more articles about this conversion.
The conversion to early 930 brakes works very well, although, if you are still using your Fuchs 16" wheels, you will need to use small (like 1/4 inch or less) wheel spacers in the rear and, perhaps, switch to 7" 951 wheels up front (same offset, but made to allow for the 951's bigger brakes). If you are already running with 17" rims on the track, you probably won't need the spacers.
Yes, you will need to go with the 930 master cylinder. Since you'll have bigger brakes you'll need to pump more fluid. So, essentially, it's not just the brakes, but a 930 braking system that you want to install.
I also have a cool brake kit installed which I purchased from AJ/USA. I experience virtually no fade at all.
Good luck.
Richard
'87 Carrera-3.6L
10-09-2002, 08:55 PM
#5
All 930 front calipers from '78-89 are the same and will bolt on to the stock struts on your car. The '78-89 930 rear calipers which should be used w/ the 930 fronts will need to be machined as the stock caliper 3.5" bolt spacing will not fit the Carrera 3" trailing arm mounts.
The '80-89 930 front rotors are incompatible w/ narrow Carrera front flares so some custom flat hats are needed to bolt either the '78-79 factory floating or aftermarket rotors to your hubs. In the back the 78-89 930 rear rotor is a bolt on and retains the parking brake.
You will need to discard the rear backing plates, and you should use a 930 m/c though you can get away w/ the stock one. The 930 m/c will give you brakes that are easier to modulate. If narrowish 7" front or 8" rear Fuchs rims are retained then the calipers f/r will need to have their fins machined down.
Contact Steve Weiner for a complete kit(and probably individual pieces though you'll have to ask Steve about that)<a href="http://www.rennsportsystems.com/~porsche/1-sf.html" target="_blank">Rennsport Systems</a>
I agree w/ the others comments about brake cooling, though I don't like the kits that hang under the A arms because the always get ripped off. A better solution (IMO)is something like these expensive puppies
The '80-89 930 front rotors are incompatible w/ narrow Carrera front flares so some custom flat hats are needed to bolt either the '78-79 factory floating or aftermarket rotors to your hubs. In the back the 78-89 930 rear rotor is a bolt on and retains the parking brake.
You will need to discard the rear backing plates, and you should use a 930 m/c though you can get away w/ the stock one. The 930 m/c will give you brakes that are easier to modulate. If narrowish 7" front or 8" rear Fuchs rims are retained then the calipers f/r will need to have their fins machined down.
Contact Steve Weiner for a complete kit(and probably individual pieces though you'll have to ask Steve about that)<a href="http://www.rennsportsystems.com/~porsche/1-sf.html" target="_blank">Rennsport Systems</a>
I agree w/ the others comments about brake cooling, though I don't like the kits that hang under the A arms because the always get ripped off. A better solution (IMO)is something like these expensive puppies
10-10-2002, 11:35 AM
#6
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David.
Check out Vehicle Craft Inc
<a href="http://www.vehiclecraft.com" target="_blank">www.vehiclecraft.com</a>
Talk to Doug Arnao
He has various upgrade kits.
Eugene.
Check out Vehicle Craft Inc
<a href="http://www.vehiclecraft.com" target="_blank">www.vehiclecraft.com</a>
Talk to Doug Arnao
He has various upgrade kits.
Eugene.
10-10-2002, 04:16 PM
#7
Here's a pic of them mounted. Air comes from the valance, nothing hanging low to get torn off. If very wide wheels and tires are used there can be interference at full lock(but we don't go there do we?)
