911vet

Ok fellas, here's your chance to rescue a damsel in distress. Tell me about your shifters, rods, whatever you guys call them.

Here's the scenerio:

Car sits overnight parked in 1st gear. Before I start it, I can move the shifter through the entire gear pattern. It will go in all gears. Will do this with clutch in or out.

Then, I put the shifter into neutral, push the clutch in, start the car. Now it will not go into ANY gear. It will move freely through the neutral part of the H pattern (i.e back and forth left and right). But it won't go forward/backward into a gear. Reverse included.

I engage and disengage the clutch. Doesn't help.

Eventually, after many attempts and a final forceful effort, it goes into gear and then will go through the rest of the pattern.

It never grinds. No sounds except an occasion "clunk" from the rear --- possibly at the rear shifter coupler? Or in the tranny?

Once I'm driving, it shifts normally.

I figured bad shifter bushings. So I removed the shifter, replaced the ball cup. I also replaced the "doughnut" bushing that guides the rod as it exits the cockpit area on its way to the rear seat area.

I did not replace the large teflon (?) assembly at the base of the shifter. Nor did I replace the rear coupler (under the access panel just in front of the jump seats).

I have changed tranny fluid twice (don't ask). It has Mobile Delvac 75W-90 gear lube now. Insiginificant amount of metal filings on the drain plug both times.

No improvement w/ new bushings or oil. It has grown progressively worse.

SO... any ideas? Anyone had to replace the rear shifter coupler on an 87-89? I know the 86 and older went bad often.

Could old brake/clutch fluid be affecting this?
Any way for the shifter rod to have gotten bent?
Could it be the clutch? Tranny? I'm out of ideas.

Thanks.

psychoideas

If you where to turn the engine off at this point, would it select gears OK?

If so, you have clutch troubles i.e. not disengaging enough.

Peter Zimmermann

Shannon: Have you got a reference as to how heavy your clutch pedal is to push down, compared to other G 50 cars that you might have driven? If the clutch is very heavy it might be clutch time, which will include an update of the throwout bearing fork and its shaft. It sounds like the slave cylinder can't develop enough pressure to overcome the T.O. fork and disengage the clutch. Until the problem is solved try cold starting the car in the gear you use to pull out of the garage, that will relieve some of the stress inside the trans...

911vet

Good point. I'm not certain. I will have to try that.

911vet

I don't have a similar reference. It is lighter than my friend's 964 C4 (G50, but different clutch). I will say that I think it's a heavy clutch.

So, it's possible the clutch could be the problem and there would be no grinding sounds? And... why does it seem to work after I get moving and drive for a while? Does pressure build up?

ron mcatee

Shannon, if you still have the rubber centered clutch disk, it has disintegrated. When the engine is off, all the rubber pieces fall to the bottom of the bellhousing. When you start the car in neutral and try to shift, it is hard to go in gear or won't go at all. Right. What happens is the pieces of rubber that have broken off are thrown axially toward the outside of the pressure plate and are preventing the pressure plate from moving, therefore, gears won't work properly. Also, as stated, there may be a problem with the fork operation if it has not been upgraded. My 88 Carrera had the same problems and a new spring type disk and othe required parts were put in. In 1988, the clutch fork had been upgraded at the factory and wasn't a problem on my car. I think, you have the original rubber centered disk and need to get it changed. Along with that, you will need to do the pressure plate and throwout bearing adn fork update if it hacn't been done.

Good Luck.

911vet

Yep, that is it precisely. Sigh. I am not having good luck with cars recently.

So, I'm afraid to ask... but what's the going rate on repairs for all this (clutch, fork upgrade, TO bearing, etc)???

jakeflyer

IF you think you want to be a Porsche owner for some time to come, you may want to consider this idea. At 18, my son decided he was a 911 guy and wanted in for the long haul as a driver and knowledgeable participating owner. We have a cheap SC driving and a cheaper S car for which we are rebuilding the engine. There is no better world to be in than Porsche if you want to do some of your own stuff/be knowledgeable. This is not to suggest you should spend $1000 on special tools and books to do a clutch by yourself. However, if you can find a small shop that has good reference here or from Porsche Club of America(pca.org $25 to join), you might try to work a deal to take a day off from work and go in and help pull the engine, see the trans and eng unmated and see the clutch in its state of disaster. You might offer to pay an extra $50 to be an assistant. IF you can find this shop that is willing to educate you hands on, it is worth thousands of dollars. You will gain respect for what they do, they will gain respect for you in that it is important enough that you too are willing to get your hands dirty. If the Zen Buddhist concept has any validity, you can become the car. You may not need to see it go back in. It takes a bit more focus by the mechanic and may be quicker without you there. But, that also depends upon your interest.

911vet

Ironic you should say this, as I checked out a copy of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance from the library today! I read it in undergrad, 20 years ago. And I do follow the buddhist philosophy. I find that working on my 911 keeps me "in the moment."

I've been doing the work on my 911 since I bought it a few months ago. I understand what you're saying. And it has been really rewarding to learn about the various systems on my car.

Actually, I am considering that very thing. Though pulling an engine sounds intimidating.

I'm a member of PCA and the local chapter. So maybe they can steer me to a garage. Good idea.

Thanks for the encouragement, Zen Master. Good thoughts.

Droops83

I would usually recommend taking it to a good shop, since I am biased, but doing the clutch yourself is not entirely out of the question. Older 911s are about the easiest cars besides a VW Beetle/Porsche 356 to take the engine/trans out of. I can get a Carrera 3.2 engine out in 1/2 hour or less if I need to. It would take a bit longer without the advantage of a lift, but if you set aside a weekend and worked slowly and carefully w/ a buddy I doubt you'd have too much trouble. Just mind the selector shaft! Clutch kits are readily available, plus the cross shaft/bearing updates. You can do a lot of things easier w/ the engine out (oil pressure switch, thermostat o-ring, breather hose/cover gasket, bellcrank bushings, fuel hoses, engine sound pad, etc). You really don't need too many special tools to replace a clutch; the clutch kit will come w/ an alignment tool, you'd maybe need to buy some new sockets (IE triple square for flywheel bolts, etc), maybe some sort of homemade mini slide hammer if the clutch fork shaft is stuck in there but that's about it. However, if you can't/are not willing to tackle this job, ask around, PCA members are usually a good source for a reliable shop.

Mike Murphy

My car has the exact same clutch problem that Spider 911 suggested. I paid $2300 for the clutch replacement and that also included the mechanic replacing both timing chain cover gaskets.

I would not expect that pulling the engine is that hard. I have performed quite a few clutch replacements on other cars, but when it comes to the machine work and clutch assembly, I would have an expert do that part. If you have a truck or a way to transport the engine assembly to a shop, have them replace the required components and assemble it. The majority of the cost of this thing is pulling the engine and putting it back. So you can save quite a bit doing that tedious kind of work yourself.

I replaced my clutch disk with a spring-centered version which is quite a bit stronger and feels just as good as the old clutch, although there was slightly more noise coming from the transmission. Didn't bother me one bit though.