Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Yessir. Current automobile M1 formulations contain insufficent amounts of ZDDP for any engine.

This is a VERY complex issue due to the interaction of all the components and elements of motor oils and I do not like using oil additives except for initial break-in. I've used EOS in those circumstances.

I am a staunch believer in the use of a good oil that needs no fortification and thankfully, there are still several good ones to chose from.

Charles Navarro

I will second what Steve said. Just choose a good oil and you don't need to add anything. We have proven oils that we know work, so there is no guesswork :-)

Another oil that I tested that would be equivalent to the Mobil 1 V-Twin would be Amsoil's Harley V-Twin 20w50. In our dyno testing it was basically identical to the V-Twin m1 in every way.

For the Royal Purple, stick to the Max Cycle formulations- they are the most robust.

jtkkz

I use Kendall 20/50

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

I hope you understand that the current Kendall oils have no resemblance to the original formulations that gave Kendall their good name.

ConocoPhillips bought the Kendall name back in 1997 and began using totally different basestocks to make oils that were totally different from the unique Kendall ones.

Brad-Penn oils are made in the old Kendall refinery in Bradford Pennsylvania by the same people that made those products from the beginning.

Google American Refining Group for the whole story and look at http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html for the rest of the "Big Picture".

Peter Zimmermann

Even I, a long time, loyal to a fault, Kendall user has switched to Brad Penn ('82 SC)...

jtkkz

So now where do I find the Brad-Penn oil? I tried looking for the Brad-Penn brand here with NO Luck

It is better then to just use regular 20/50 (castrol, quaker state etc...)?

thanks for your input

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

You need to mail-order it like we all do. Call Brad-Penn and ask them where the closest distributor/dealer is to your location.

Use those other products at your own risk, though.

Its a LOT cheaper to use a good oil compared to dealing with the after-effects from the majority of today's oil formulations.

jtkkz

Where do you order it from? Which company? Can we orderit from the same company you mail order it from?

Edward

Excellent! Thanks, Steve, and others! I recall that discussion long ago regarding the "Orig Kendall" as that was the stuff most used, especially for track beasties, and how the formula changed. I guess I'll try my hand at ordering from the site I found. Will report back

Edward

IslandmanPA

From everything that has been done to to make the new oils emissions friendly, Brad Penn is the ONLY way to go! http://www.bradpennracing.com/default.asp I contacted them and they put me in-touch with a distributor in my area! If you have a friend in the automotive business, they will ship.

Bearclaw

Red Line, baby. Per correspondence with them, there's still plenty of both elements in there for these engines. I use the 10W-40 myself. There's a reason why you can buy M1 at Costco. Kick it to the curb.

george44

Hi guys, follwing Steve's advice I've Googled "American Refining Group in Bradley Pennsylvania" yes, exactly like this and got to their web page, there is the Contact tab, sent a message last night and got a reply from Jennifer (sales and marketing) who told me there is a sales manager for Canada (Rick) and he will conatact me to let me know where I can buy their oil (unfortunatelly they do not make 10W40 which would have been very good for my two older Audis for winter), current offering for racing oils is 0W-30, 20W-50, 10W-30, SAE 50, Nitro 70, Break-in 30 and in the near future they will offer SAE 40 and 4-Stroke Motorcycle Oils. So to purchase either you contact them by e-mail or telephone and find out the distributor in your area or purchase from LN Engineering, they carry both the Bad Penn and Swepco 305, www.lnengineering.com, and quite frankly the prices are very reasonable, $54 per 12 liter case, I believe I paid more for the Valvoline VR1 Racing I purchased from Napa in Canada (special order mind you).

Now for the mainstream oils I also wrote to Valvoline and I've pasted below the response. I don't want to start another discussion, Iceman has already warned me this has been beaten to death, I believe that we all know enough by now to make a decision that is best suited for the longevity of the engines in our cars. So thanks to all the knowledgeable folks who pitched in (honestly many thanks Steve Weimer!) and also lets' not forget Bruce Anderson who mentions this whole issue in Excellence.

Below what I got from Valvoline -

"The oil industry per ILSAC had to only decrease the levels of ZDDP (Zinc) in certain viscosity to meet new emission standards. The ILSAC rated oils still have an average of .085 levels of zinc. Testing has shown on standard OEM set ups that used mild camshafts will still get plenty of protection from the new rated oils. There is an exception when it comes to extreme aftermarket applications. If you have a high performance solid lifter set up with an aggressive cam then you will need to use a quality Racing Oil or Fleet Oil for break in and normal usage. These oils have an increased level of Zinc that will range from .14 to .16 and will provide plenty of protection.
The consensus in the industry is that the current chemical limits of the GF-4/SM category are still sufficient to protect all "street" engines, including older flat tappet roller engines. The engine tests required for a GF-4/SM product is just as severe as the older, higher ZDDP allowed category. For the special applications (aggressive cams, high HP racing motors, etc) where the customer needs more ZDDP protection, our NON-GF-4 products still contain the higher levels (such as VR-1 and "not street legal" racing)."

HarryD

Did this answer the question for you or does it seem like a bunch of marketing gobblygook? Seems that way to me.

For our cars, do you really thing we have "OEM set ups that used mild camshafts"? I think not. We are closer to "high performance solid lifter set up with an aggressive cam ".

They say for us "you will need to use a quality Racing Oil or Fleet Oil for break in and normal usage". So mr. marketer, which valvoline product do we get? Where do we find it? Will our FLAPS have it ont he shelf? Oddly, they do not provide any specific recommendations.

Some interesting reading: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=367300

george44

Hi Harry, yes, it did and plenty. By definition an air cooled engine has a harder life than a water cooled one, add to that the effects due to these engines being high performance and an oil that is subpar is the last thing you need. I pasted the article to confirm to everybody if there ever was any doubt about that the current oils have lower P and Zn content. That is very interesting the link you posted, thank you, it only confirms what we all have discussed so far, there are oils available to preserve our engines, we only have to know about them and use them.

George

HarryD

George,

It is sad we have to find these things for ourselves.

And just for ha-ha's, our pal at Valvoline refers to a "older flat tappet roller engine". How can this be?