Doug Hillary

Hi,
T Rip - firstly it's not a synthetic version if it is 15w-40 viscosity (the synthetic version is 5w-40) - and yes, as a mineral 15w-40 it is a good mineral HDEO product for that application. Please resist the urge to add any supplementary additives!

Regards
Doug

Drew Theodore

This thread has become very confusing for people that dont care what is in oil but want to make sure that the oil that we are putting in our air cooled cars is not going to cause long term damage.
Are there some/any oil brands and weight that Charles, Steve and Doug agree on that would protect aircooled Porsche engines?

Charles Navarro

Steve and I have agreed on Swepco and Brad Penn months and months ago. Many highly regarded shops only use the above two oils because cumulatively, there is years of evidence to show these oils work satisfactorily in aircooled Porsches in their current and unchanged formulations. Sure, you can't get it at Autozone, but it's easy enough to 1) buy oil online, or 2), contact the manufacturer and ask for vendor in your region that might be local enough to go pick it up. I list quite a few other oils other than the two mentioned above on my website and have done so on other posts, but yet again, for most of us, these oils are not available locally either OR come out more expensive than the above oils, even with shipping.

JBO

The thing I'm struggling with is whether 5 qts of the new Mobil 1 15-50 mixed with 5 qts of V-twin 20-50, for little more cost than mail ordering the Brad Penn, would be better since you are then using 100% synthetic oil, which I have always used and always understood to be the "best", if not overkill for a street only car. The main thing I don't like about changing to Brad Penn is the change to a dino oil.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

+++ On what Charles just said,....


JBO:

Generally speaking, I'm not a fan of mixing/matching oils (even from the same maker) as you asked about, given the potential bad interactions from the various components of motor oils and some bad unintended consequences.

I have not sat down and carefully examined the contents of both M1 oils to see a possible problem with certain base elements. Before doing any such things, I would run that by a Lubrication Engineer and/or a Tribologist to be on solid ground.

Personally speaking, if I'm predisposed to use a synthetic oil for whatever reasons, I will be using 100% of whatever I so choose and not mix different versions of the same.

The line between synthetics and dino oils is a gray one given the wide disparity in quality of ingredients used. Some dino oils are far better than many synthetics.

livi

Yes, Doug,

We are now confused.

To M1 or not. That´s the question (I am not Danish, but Swedish)!

If I understand you correctly, M1 0w40 will not kill my 85 Carrera..?

That´s science and statistics in a nut shell. Ask my pediatric patients for a second or third opinion with collegues of mine and they will recieve - well, yes, a second and third opinion. An opinion is no more accurate than it´s sources and all the the three advices are probably equally correct when viewed from a professionals perspective. For a patient or a 911 owner without basic oil knowledge however, oposing opinions creates confusion (as you have acknowledged previously).

theiceman

So what grades does swepco come in ? That I know I can get. Also in a somewhat unrelated note ( not hijacking ) I run swepco in my 915 transmision , what kind of adative should I put in if any for my LSD ) ?

Thanks

Doug Hillary

Hi,
JBO - Mixing the two M1 lubricants you mention is OK - they are fully compatible! Do NOT add any supplementary additives of any type

livi - Det er rigtig - Men M1 5w-40 eller Esso Ultron 5w-40 er '"excellent"! Unskild min Dansk er ikke Svensk!!!

There are no magic oils from any Manufacturer !!!

Regards

V6Passat

Doug,

Thanks for sharing your knowledge, I enjoy your posts here and over at BITOG!

I have a question. I recently put Castrol Syntec 5w-50 into my Passat v6. I thought it would be fine since it has the A3/B3 ACEA ratings, but it also has the SM GF-4 ratings, so I'm a little concerned about leaving it in based on your comments about GF-4. Do you have any thoughts about this? Thank you!

Doug Hillary

Hi,
V6Passat - Thanks - they asked me to Post again on BITOG and to assist in starting up the Truckers oil Forum

The Syntec 5w-50 will be fine but they do have a 5w-40 too which is on VW's List

That oil was once (<MY99) on Porsche's List too

I expect an error on the Syntec PDS regarding GF-4 - but I can't be sure
I'll check that out via the Castrol Sponsor relationship on BITOG

Regards

livi

Thanks Doug!

A man of many talents. From Down Under speaking Danish. What do you know!

Charles Navarro

Being I own new VWs and have looked into their specifications as much as the Porsche ones, Syntec 5w-50 was reformulated a few years back, about the time it was pulled from the Porshce approved list. The 5w50 is indeed a GF-4, per their website and bottling, and never met VW standards.

I personally would stick to using the 5w40 Syntec, if that is your preference. Castrol is the OE supplier of VW spec lubricants, at least with the 505.01 standard, with Castrol TXT at all VW dealerships in the US.

V6Passat

Thank you Doug and Charles!

My Passat is a 2003 (almost out of warranty) and my owners manual spec'd SJ oil, which was 2-3 years old when the car was new. I've done several UOA's, using the German 0w-30 and one using M1 T&SUV, which is supposed to be Delvac 1, and I'm having elevated bearing wear. The M1 was out of grade in 3k miles, although the rate of wear was decreased compared to the 0w-30. Both oils were SL rated.

Terry Dyson believes it to be from fuel dilution, which I've taken a few measures to correct, but he believes it's due the "fuel map" being used on cars today to light off the CC. I changed to the 50w thinking it would work better than the 40w at protecting the bearings. Also, the Castrol 5w-40 looks pretty weak in the VOA that I've seen.

I've been doing a lot of reading on the web, which led me to this thread. I'm starting to think a robust 15w-40 or 20w-50 SJ oil is going to be the best solution. VW used to recommend 20w-50 for this motor and I'm not very concerned with the 502 spec since I'm not running a turbo and I'm willing to do UOA's.

Thanks again for your help!
Tim White

PS - Glad your back on BITOG Doug, I missed your's and Ted's talks about M1 0w-40! Looking forward to the truckers forum!

Charles Navarro

Tim, it is for the reasons above that I chose to run Motul 505.01 spec oil in my two new VWs. It had a very good VOA and is an ACEA A3/B3 with API SJ rating. Unfortunately, they reformulated, but I have probably enough stockpiled to last me the next three years. If I were to choose another VW approved spec oil, I would go with Elf Excellium DID 5w40.

http://www.lnengineering.com/passat5kmotul50501.pdf
5,000 mi drain, 30k mi total on Motul 505.01 5w40 API SJ

http://www.lnengineering.com/touareg...oltxt50501.pdf
3,000 mi drain, 50k mi total on dealer fill VW/Castrol TXT 505.01 5w40 API SJ

Both cars take 12 liter fills, like a 911 :-) The Passat had zero oil consumption; the Touareg used about 3/4 liter every 1k miles.

I wasn't extremely pleased with the fill in the Touareg, it now has Motul in it. I'll do another sampling at 3k miles for comparison. I hope it has better TBN retention than the Castrol TXT did (lost 50% in 3k miles).

I'm not a big fan of 5w50's in general. They typically have HTHS viscosities not much better than 5w40s. Also, I try to stay clear of 0w40's for that same reason - their 5w40 counterparts have significantly higher HTHS viscosities than 0w40s, some by 25%, if you compare M1 0w40 to 5w40 Truck and Diesel or to the VW 505.01 spec M1 (not available in North America). For the majority of owners, there just isn't the need for a 0W versus a 5W cold.

V6Passat

Charles, that Motul did great! I'm surprised that the Zn and P is as low as it is for an SJ oil! I had never considered a 505.01 oil, it's too bad they changed it! I'm going to looking into the Elf and other 505.01 to see what I can find...

The Castrol 5w-50 has a HTHS of 4.5, which is a little better than most 15w-40's I've looked at. Since the Delvac 1 is around 4 cSt, I felt the Castrol would put me where I needed to be and with good low temp service. My motor runs great with it, now with 1800 miles, but I want to be sure my cams are safe!

Since I live in Alabama, I believe I can get away with a 15w or 20w in the winter. I agree with you, the 0w is not needed for most cases! I was using the 0w-30 due to it's shear stability and VW ratings.