luke-44

The more I research 911's to decide which way to go, the harder it is to make a decision. I like the 993, I like the 964, I like the 3.2.'s, and I like the Sc's. That is as old as I want to go due to the galvanized body and style. Anyway, I go back and forth between classic looks and more modern convenience, between lower price and more modern performance and comfort, between relatively easy to work on to oh well - it'll have to go to the shop for everything so don't worry about maintenance. Price is not a limiting issue, but obviously a consideration. I do want some "grunt" so more power is nicer than less of course.

As for use, I do know I want to use it for DE and weekends primarily - along with my 18 yr old son as a father/son bonding thing - it won't be a daily driver.

Having said all that, my question is: what series could be said to have really licked the infamous tail happy oversteer of the earliest days? I am told a 4 wd 964 is pretty much impossible to oversteer backwards into a fence - this being the one extreme end of the scale. At what point or era should this still be a consideration? Or, are all the years I'm looking at OK?

Your valued inpiut is appreciated.

Mike Murphy

It's really only the pre-3.0SCs that are spooky. I have a 3.2 and it's still kinda hard to lose control of the rear end. I think you'd be pretty safe with a 964, and you'll have great AC and a large 3.6 to go with it, only you're not paying much more for it over a 3.2 or SC.

Capt. Carrera

Stop worry about the "oversteer" myth. Every stock 911 I've been in ('76 and up) understeers. Granted, not like an '82 LTD II, but 911s definitely understeer, and quite a bit.

Serge944

Its the stupid-induced-oversteer you have to worry about.

Dont. Lift.

Edgy01

A lot of what helped significantly was the change to wider tires/wheels in the back (starting in 1978) with the 911SC. Prior to that they were significantly squirrelier.

VNTGSPD

I would agree with what most have said.

One thing to remember is that the cars over the years got better and easier to drive but even the later 993 will get away from you if you don't respect the car and the speeds at which you are traveling. With the rear weight bias and the heavier weight of the newer cars, once they do start coming around, it can be really tough to save them if you are inexperienced. For comparison, by 2200lb. '69 is very "loose" in the rear but can also be driven really sideways and still recovered due to the lighter weight and increased steering lock.

Amber Gramps

Just how crazy do you plan on driving that tail swing is an issue? I can't get mine to come around. a 35MPH turn at (EDIT: higher speed) or an off camber launch left hand turn that lights up the tires bouncing off the rev limiter with only mild swing from a bone stock cab. it's not an issue

Peter Zimmermann

How much do you trust yourself, and how much do you trust your son? 911s are all built to be driven quickly, some can learn how to do it well, some are not capable of doing it at all, and they don't belong in any fast car. Spend some time in rental GoKarts, learn what it feels like to lose the front, and the back, and how to slide. Learn how to tickle the throttle to induce attitude changes - you can do this with an old Ford station wagon if you want to. Find a huge parking lot that is empty on weekends, has nothing (light poles, planters, etc.) to hit, and go slide around on it. Contact your local Sheriff and find out if they offer car control courses, skid pad training, etc., many do. Make dramatic changes to a car's tire pressures to induce more understeer or oversteer, just to see how it feels. Frustrated journalists hammered Porsche for "oversteer," but others say the quick way around a corner is to have some oversteer. I rode with an SCCA National driver with CanAm experience, in a '65 911 on 165x15 street tires, at Willow Springs Raceway. That was the very car that the journalists bitched about the most. Ha! My friend not only had that car dancing on its tiptoes, he had me almost matching his lap times in it by the end of the weekend. Oversteer only puts people into guardrails who are unaware, unschooled, or just flat don't belong in the car. Learn to feel your car, if it takes 3 miles, or 3,000 miles, is not important. What's important is to never overdrive the car on the street, which will put you, your son, and innocents in harm's way. Drive fast where it's safe to do so, and only approach the car's limits after you know what your limits are.

Corrales911

I always throught the issue with 911s was a trailing throttle rear break away. I agree that in a turn under throttle the car wants to understeer.

JV911

you could always built/buy a hot rod - find a clean SC and stick a 3.6 in it along with upgraded suspension & brakes

that way you have classic lines but modern performance



+1

spence88mph

+1

Amber Gramps

this last spring I saw the PCA speed event at the California Speedway and could not believe my eyes. Highly modified 964's, stock 911's, and a couple of 914/6's, all sliding sideways into the tightest of corners totally in control and on the gas. Moves that would make sain people faint were pulled of by every car, and every driver, at speeds upwards of 100 MPH. It looked like they were planted to the ground.

control with a stock car for example again....the local clover leaf from the I-15 to the I-210 is an early apex 270 degree corner posted at 35 miles per hour. At 35 my van gets loose and wants to wander up and out. My '88 911 cab....at (EDIT: at a higher rate of speed) doesn't even know it's in a turn. It is probebly the relationship my right foot has with the gas, but it is not even close to coming around. I do have Toyo's and I do now run a K&N and 95 octane, but that doesn't change goemetry and weight.

r911

Since the 1970s P AG has dialed in a lot of understeer to keep rich but not well skilled buyers safe.

All of them will oversteer with enough throttle and oversteer with a quick lift off of the throttle (trailing throttle). The amount for each to get a given degree of oversteer has increased thru the years.

It has bee a nearly continuous process, so you will have to drive various examples. One big difference is SWB vs. LWB but I cannot say there are not other larger changes at some other point.

JackOlsen

Oversteer is why the 911 is faster than other cars. You just need to know how to drive it.

Graufuchs

I think hes just concerned about driving DE and pushing it. I can get the tail out depending how hard I press the fun pedal. Get an SC or a carrera...you'll have fun with it. I'm in the same boat my car is primarily a DE and weekend car, I don't care much for creature comforts cause I have a car with that already.


Jack BTW...Videos KICK ***...