Why don't cars have 2 tachometers? Other things that should be on production cars.
01-03-2007, 05:59 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Why don't cars have 2 tachometers? Other things that should be on production cars.
Do you ever think about what you would like to see come from the factory, but currently isn’t offered?
For example, I think that it would be beneficial to have 2 tachometers: 1 for the engine and 1 for the transmission input shaft(clutch). You could simply display both on the same gauge using 2 needles. The reason? Well, on a street car, you would have super-smooth shifting from a manual transmission car if you aligned the two needles during upshifts and downshifts. For the track, you would be able to see if you accidentally dropped down too low a gear, since the trans tach would be pegged. This could save you from catastrophic engine damage. Granted, a good driver wouldn't need the 2nd tachometer, and can upshift and downshift just fine without it, but so can a good driver without the 1st and only tach.
I would also like to see an engine-hours meter on the car. Just like what they have on airplanes. I think that would help in further differentiating among the year of the car, the mileage, and the use of it. There are too many low-mileage cars out there that nobody knows how many hours (use) it has. Similarly, a high-mileage car with relatively low hours would help "prove" that the car really was a highway driven car - which is to say makes it more desirable than a city car with the same mileage. The engine-hours meter would make maintenance schedules more simple and straightforward as well.
Anyone else have any ideas or opinions about what should be added to these cars?
For example, I think that it would be beneficial to have 2 tachometers: 1 for the engine and 1 for the transmission input shaft(clutch). You could simply display both on the same gauge using 2 needles. The reason? Well, on a street car, you would have super-smooth shifting from a manual transmission car if you aligned the two needles during upshifts and downshifts. For the track, you would be able to see if you accidentally dropped down too low a gear, since the trans tach would be pegged. This could save you from catastrophic engine damage. Granted, a good driver wouldn't need the 2nd tachometer, and can upshift and downshift just fine without it, but so can a good driver without the 1st and only tach.
I would also like to see an engine-hours meter on the car. Just like what they have on airplanes. I think that would help in further differentiating among the year of the car, the mileage, and the use of it. There are too many low-mileage cars out there that nobody knows how many hours (use) it has. Similarly, a high-mileage car with relatively low hours would help "prove" that the car really was a highway driven car - which is to say makes it more desirable than a city car with the same mileage. The engine-hours meter would make maintenance schedules more simple and straightforward as well.
Anyone else have any ideas or opinions about what should be added to these cars?
01-03-2007, 06:22 PM
#2
I think I'm going to have North Hollywood Speedo put a volt meter in my tachometer at some point soon. Having the volts displayed would be great. I love this look too:
An amp meter would be even better...and typically is more useful for monitoring alternator output.
I like the hour meter idea as well.
Jay
90 964
84 3.2
An amp meter would be even better...and typically is more useful for monitoring alternator output.
I like the hour meter idea as well.
Jay
90 964
84 3.2
01-03-2007, 06:30 PM
#3
mileage comes pretty close to the maint. needs given by an hours meter -- MB and some others have capacitive sensors that read how bad the engine oil has gotten - dunno if the 996-7/Boxster "horn o' plenty' oil display works that way or not. IIRC, it just gave a level on the one I had.
then there s the question of 'do you really need all that stuff'? certainly most drivers will just be confused so that undermines the R&D and the mass production for sensors and readouts -- Result = Spendy!
in part, things were hard to do mechanically and are easy now, but the previous way of doing things persists.
if you get a 930 tach, you can easily pull the boost gauge and put in the volt meter...
then there s the question of 'do you really need all that stuff'? certainly most drivers will just be confused so that undermines the R&D and the mass production for sensors and readouts -- Result = Spendy!
in part, things were hard to do mechanically and are easy now, but the previous way of doing things persists.
if you get a 930 tach, you can easily pull the boost gauge and put in the volt meter...
01-04-2007, 04:11 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
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double tach???????? i don't even use mine, trained by ear, and a skill of rev matching is all you need
I personally like the air conditioned glove box and center console in my jetta, on a road trip to Palm Springs, it kept our chocolate bars nice and cool.
I personally like the air conditioned glove box and center console in my jetta, on a road trip to Palm Springs, it kept our chocolate bars nice and cool.
01-04-2007, 09:47 AM
#6
Three Wheelin'
Not applicable on the 911s (since they already have it), but for all other cars I'd like to see an oil temperature gauge (which allows the driver to know when the motor/tranny have really warmed up, not just when the coolant got up to temp), and gives the general running temperature of the motor at all times.
I actually conceptually thought of a tach with a moving red line as the car warmed up, and then BMW went and designed it for their M cars! That is a great idea as I have cringed many times over my life at people revving up or applying a lot of throttle to a cold engine (to me, its the same feeling as someone running their fingernails against a chalkboard, but then again I'm too much of a car nut and am therefore bothered by such things). Maybe this would have stopped the guy who gave me a ride in his 550 maranello from redlining the car in the first 3 gears with the oil AND water gauges still on the cold pegs! All I could think was- holy cow is this thing fast and holy cow is this guy doing the worst thing possible to the beautiful V12 under the hood!
I actually conceptually thought of a tach with a moving red line as the car warmed up, and then BMW went and designed it for their M cars! That is a great idea as I have cringed many times over my life at people revving up or applying a lot of throttle to a cold engine (to me, its the same feeling as someone running their fingernails against a chalkboard, but then again I'm too much of a car nut and am therefore bothered by such things). Maybe this would have stopped the guy who gave me a ride in his 550 maranello from redlining the car in the first 3 gears with the oil AND water gauges still on the cold pegs! All I could think was- holy cow is this thing fast and holy cow is this guy doing the worst thing possible to the beautiful V12 under the hood!
01-04-2007, 10:05 AM
#7
Originally Posted by dvkk
Jay, I have to agree, that looks really good. What car is that from?
This is a pic directly from North Hollywood's website. Cool 'eh? I'll probably have mine done in the standard black face with orange needle. I've got a pic of a black one too. Randywebb's suggestion of having the volts where the boost is on a 930 tach is a good one too.
The moving redline tach as on M cars is very cool. Andrew, I too HATE it when people rev the **** out of a cold motor.
Jay
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01-05-2007, 10:42 AM
#8
Never understood it, as I expect it irrelative in a 35+ year old car, but my MG has a gauge under the hood to determine servicing of the transmission. Then again, how many cars have the rod bearings in the owner manual under regular service items at 50k intervals 
01-05-2007, 10:45 AM
#9
With todays high output alternators, is there such a thing as a remote amp meter? I really don't want a 140 amp feed into the gauge cluster as old car ran the full load through their amp gauges. Anyone else ever chase a amp gauge failure....can be annoying in itself.
01-05-2007, 01:23 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
"For the track, you would be able to see if you accidentally dropped down too low a gear, since the trans tach would be pegged. This could save you from catastrophic engine damage."
By the time it registers on the gauge and your brain comprhends the info, your already puking oil on the track. Besides your ears and butt IMHO are more sensitive to this type of info. Matching gears/revs is becomes instinctual. This gauge is useful perhaps for somebody learning to drive that needs a visual. But in my experience somebody learning is already busy thinking about too many things and doesn't need another distraction. Whatever, I like your thinking. and I do 100% agree with the Hobbs meter. If you rebuild your engine and mileage suddenly becomes irrelevant, this is a cool way to monitor it. Of course the aircraft industry has requirements for rebuilds and if somebody says "oh yeah I rebuilt the engine 50hrs ago" and their idea of a rebuild is replacing the valve cover gaskets......... well you get the idea.
I like the idea of having a set of gauges in the engine compartment tach / oil press / temp. A graduated temp gauge / an oil pressure gauge in PSI / cyl head temp gauge and volt meter. All of which can be added to the 911. Remember the factory actually had to build these cars in some number so they no doubt had to keep things relatively simple. They didn't have the bucks they have today :-)
Brgds, Peter
By the time it registers on the gauge and your brain comprhends the info, your already puking oil on the track. Besides your ears and butt IMHO are more sensitive to this type of info. Matching gears/revs is becomes instinctual. This gauge is useful perhaps for somebody learning to drive that needs a visual. But in my experience somebody learning is already busy thinking about too many things and doesn't need another distraction. Whatever, I like your thinking. and I do 100% agree with the Hobbs meter. If you rebuild your engine and mileage suddenly becomes irrelevant, this is a cool way to monitor it. Of course the aircraft industry has requirements for rebuilds and if somebody says "oh yeah I rebuilt the engine 50hrs ago" and their idea of a rebuild is replacing the valve cover gaskets......... well you get the idea.
I like the idea of having a set of gauges in the engine compartment tach / oil press / temp. A graduated temp gauge / an oil pressure gauge in PSI / cyl head temp gauge and volt meter. All of which can be added to the 911. Remember the factory actually had to build these cars in some number so they no doubt had to keep things relatively simple. They didn't have the bucks they have today :-)
Brgds, Peter
01-05-2007, 03:02 PM
#11
Poseur
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Some interesting ideas but we really want to be heads up OUTSIDE the cockpit. The nice thing about cars (and aircraft, too) is that it challenges ALL the senses. Not just something that taxes the eyes all the time. Could you imagine having to WATCH your two tachs all the time to get a smooth perfect shift? It would wear me out. I do it by sound and feel.
01-06-2007, 09:56 AM
#14
Your speedo will do the same thing a dual tach would - If you know the speed in each gear. When I get a car that is new to me, I figure out the RPM difference at certain speeds and take the car out for a few afternoons of upshift, downshift. Once I am comfortable with the gearbox, I practice heel and toe downshifts.
Just another excuse for a drive, but it really pays off in the long run. I bought my 951 from a guy who really didn't seem too comfortable shifting it. 951s are particularly easy to shift IMO. A little practice can go a long way. One of the reasons I like my SC is that it seems to ''need'' me to drive it, unlike some cars that just seem to drive themselves. There is however a kind of car that makes you feel like an even better driver than you are. They are like a good sex partner. The SC isn't quite like that , more like a race car that could bite you, but will give you everything if you can make it happen.
That is a fun toy for the track, and a good partner at 8/10ths for the street
Just another excuse for a drive, but it really pays off in the long run. I bought my 951 from a guy who really didn't seem too comfortable shifting it. 951s are particularly easy to shift IMO. A little practice can go a long way. One of the reasons I like my SC is that it seems to ''need'' me to drive it, unlike some cars that just seem to drive themselves. There is however a kind of car that makes you feel like an even better driver than you are. They are like a good sex partner. The SC isn't quite like that , more like a race car that could bite you, but will give you everything if you can make it happen.
That is a fun toy for the track, and a good partner at 8/10ths for the street
