Buying my first Porsche
09-20-2006, 08:54 PM
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Track Day
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Buying my first Porsche
This seems like a common thread around here, but here's my recent experience. I've liked 911s for a long time so I'm excited to get my own!
I've been interested in getting a 1984-1989 Carrera for a while and have been perusing eBay and CL. I looked at a few and read what I could online. I checked with the local PCA chapter and found a Porsche specialist near me who regularly contributed to their site and newsletter.
Last week I found the one. It's an '84 Cabriolet, 2nd owner since 1989 who claims to have only used it as a fun car on sunny days (even here in California, there are some folks who don't drive these all the time). The car only has 52k miles on it. It's dark red with tan interior and black top. I was attracted to the car because it appeared to be entirely stock, down to the 15" Fuchs, steering wheel, shift ****, and radio (works). The top is only about a year old, owner claims the rear window became opaque on the old one, and the clutch and brakes were replaced within the past few thousand miles (though this could be a couple of years ago based on their driving habits).
The body looks good... about like a 5 year old used car rather than a 22 year old. A few small door dings, rock chips on the front, but nothing major that a Dent Doctor can't take care of. Paint is all original except for the passenger door which was repainted after something fell against it in the garage about 8 years ago (according to the owner). The match is very good and is only perceptible because the paint on the door has less orange peel than the fenders. Door and panel alignments are all spot on and the doors shut solidly.
The car was built with the full leather dashboard,which looks like new except for a small amount of shrinking/lifting around the center vents. I saw the exact same issue on another 911 with the leather package so I figure it's just par for the course.
Obvious issues were that the A/C doesn't work (another common thread around here, no?). The owner claims this is just from lack of use as it's been a fair-weather car. Whatever, my 1991 Miata still blows cold and has never needed A/C service, so perhaps this is just a common Porsche issue. The windshield washer fluid doesn't spray (and the reservoir has a leak). The tires are only a couple of years old but appear to be flat-spotted from sitting so much as they vibrated once up to freeway speeds then smoothed out after a mile or two miles.
I took it to the mechanic this morning for a thorough inspection. They found a few items that should be replaced due to lack of use including an oil return hose that appeared brittle, one front wheel bearing with a bit of play, recommend a brake fluid flush as there was some water content, and they say that it needs an idle stabilizer (it idled fine when I drove it a few days ago but was hunting this morning). I used to have a VW Jetta GLI with Motronic and it did the same thing. Basically, no big surprises. Oh yeah, they also say that the radio antenna goes up and down but sticks on the way up and should be lubricated. Compression was 155 in 5 cylinders and 150 in another. Well within spec according to the owner of the shop.
The owner is asking $17,900 and is firm on it. I think is a fair price and since he's had a lot of inquiries he isn't willing to come down anyway.
I'm very excited about this car. It turns out that my wife's father used to have a 356 before she was born and used to talk about it all the time. He's deceased and she somehow finds something fitting in us getting a Porsche. She loves to drive sports cars and is looking forward to "borrowing" my new car... I may never get it back.
Thanks for letting me lurk on this board for a while. It was very helpful. I look forward to learning more about these cars as I drive her more. I think my first step is to study the owner's manual. I can't decode the ventilation and heat controls at this point. These must have been some German scientist's practical joke.
Later!
I've been interested in getting a 1984-1989 Carrera for a while and have been perusing eBay and CL. I looked at a few and read what I could online. I checked with the local PCA chapter and found a Porsche specialist near me who regularly contributed to their site and newsletter.
Last week I found the one. It's an '84 Cabriolet, 2nd owner since 1989 who claims to have only used it as a fun car on sunny days (even here in California, there are some folks who don't drive these all the time). The car only has 52k miles on it. It's dark red with tan interior and black top. I was attracted to the car because it appeared to be entirely stock, down to the 15" Fuchs, steering wheel, shift ****, and radio (works). The top is only about a year old, owner claims the rear window became opaque on the old one, and the clutch and brakes were replaced within the past few thousand miles (though this could be a couple of years ago based on their driving habits).
The body looks good... about like a 5 year old used car rather than a 22 year old. A few small door dings, rock chips on the front, but nothing major that a Dent Doctor can't take care of. Paint is all original except for the passenger door which was repainted after something fell against it in the garage about 8 years ago (according to the owner). The match is very good and is only perceptible because the paint on the door has less orange peel than the fenders. Door and panel alignments are all spot on and the doors shut solidly.
The car was built with the full leather dashboard,which looks like new except for a small amount of shrinking/lifting around the center vents. I saw the exact same issue on another 911 with the leather package so I figure it's just par for the course.
Obvious issues were that the A/C doesn't work (another common thread around here, no?). The owner claims this is just from lack of use as it's been a fair-weather car. Whatever, my 1991 Miata still blows cold and has never needed A/C service, so perhaps this is just a common Porsche issue. The windshield washer fluid doesn't spray (and the reservoir has a leak). The tires are only a couple of years old but appear to be flat-spotted from sitting so much as they vibrated once up to freeway speeds then smoothed out after a mile or two miles.
I took it to the mechanic this morning for a thorough inspection. They found a few items that should be replaced due to lack of use including an oil return hose that appeared brittle, one front wheel bearing with a bit of play, recommend a brake fluid flush as there was some water content, and they say that it needs an idle stabilizer (it idled fine when I drove it a few days ago but was hunting this morning). I used to have a VW Jetta GLI with Motronic and it did the same thing. Basically, no big surprises. Oh yeah, they also say that the radio antenna goes up and down but sticks on the way up and should be lubricated. Compression was 155 in 5 cylinders and 150 in another. Well within spec according to the owner of the shop.
The owner is asking $17,900 and is firm on it. I think is a fair price and since he's had a lot of inquiries he isn't willing to come down anyway.
I'm very excited about this car. It turns out that my wife's father used to have a 356 before she was born and used to talk about it all the time. He's deceased and she somehow finds something fitting in us getting a Porsche. She loves to drive sports cars and is looking forward to "borrowing" my new car... I may never get it back.
Thanks for letting me lurk on this board for a while. It was very helpful. I look forward to learning more about these cars as I drive her more. I think my first step is to study the owner's manual. I can't decode the ventilation and heat controls at this point. These must have been some German scientist's practical joke.
Later!
09-21-2006, 11:47 AM
#6
Stevelovescars: Hopefully I can answer some of your questions.
The shrinking leather dash condition is very common on these cars. I've got an '84 with a full leather interior and while the dash leather looks great, it's very warped around the defrost vents and edges near the windshield. I've judged garage queen concours cars with minimal mileage on them with leather dashes and they are the same warped mess.
Heat controls are pretty straight forward once you get to know what the levers do. The top black lever will open the central vent that is located below the cowl (under the windshield area). Full left is the fully closed position. Pushing past about the center point of it's travel path with then activate the fresh air blower. Pushing the lever fully to the right will have the vent open with the fresh air fan operating at full speed.
The red handled lever is for directing heat to either the foot wells (fully left) or to the windscreen position (fully to the right).
The other black handled lever will direct the above mentioned fresh air to the foot wells or to the windshield.
There will be two levers between the seats (if you have manual heating) that open and close the heater boxes to allow heat that comes from the heat exchangers into the car. With the levers fully down to the floor, the heat will just dump out of the heater boxes/heat exchangers under the engine. As you pull up on the levers, the heater boxes will close and allow more heat to come forward into the cabin. If you have "manual' heat, there will be a 4 position fan switch between the seats. "0" will have the fans off. 1-3 will activate booster fans to help even the flow of heat out of the system when the engine is at low speeds.
If your car has automatic heating, there will be just a dial between the seats that opens the heater boxes as you increase the dial verses pulling up on levers. You'll be amazed at how much heat can come out of these cars after only a short time of running on a cold day.
It sounds like the rest of the car is in nice condition and just needs a few minor things (they all do). The price seems fair for both seller and buyer for a low mileage '84 3.2.
Have fun!
Jay
90 964
84 3.2
The shrinking leather dash condition is very common on these cars. I've got an '84 with a full leather interior and while the dash leather looks great, it's very warped around the defrost vents and edges near the windshield. I've judged garage queen concours cars with minimal mileage on them with leather dashes and they are the same warped mess.
Heat controls are pretty straight forward once you get to know what the levers do. The top black lever will open the central vent that is located below the cowl (under the windshield area). Full left is the fully closed position. Pushing past about the center point of it's travel path with then activate the fresh air blower. Pushing the lever fully to the right will have the vent open with the fresh air fan operating at full speed.
The red handled lever is for directing heat to either the foot wells (fully left) or to the windscreen position (fully to the right).
The other black handled lever will direct the above mentioned fresh air to the foot wells or to the windshield.
There will be two levers between the seats (if you have manual heating) that open and close the heater boxes to allow heat that comes from the heat exchangers into the car. With the levers fully down to the floor, the heat will just dump out of the heater boxes/heat exchangers under the engine. As you pull up on the levers, the heater boxes will close and allow more heat to come forward into the cabin. If you have "manual' heat, there will be a 4 position fan switch between the seats. "0" will have the fans off. 1-3 will activate booster fans to help even the flow of heat out of the system when the engine is at low speeds.
If your car has automatic heating, there will be just a dial between the seats that opens the heater boxes as you increase the dial verses pulling up on levers. You'll be amazed at how much heat can come out of these cars after only a short time of running on a cold day.
It sounds like the rest of the car is in nice condition and just needs a few minor things (they all do). The price seems fair for both seller and buyer for a low mileage '84 3.2.
Have fun!
Jay
90 964
84 3.2
09-21-2006, 12:08 PM
#7
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I'm no 911 expert, so I can't help you there..........but welcome to Rennlist! You'll find this place indispensable for tips, questions, parts, etc. - I know I have gotten my money's worth several times over!
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09-21-2006, 01:30 PM
#8
Track Day
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911 heater controls
Jay, thanks for the tips. I suppose I'll just need to play with these when I get the car and they will make more sense.
If I understand correctly, then, to send heat to the windshield to defrost, the levers between the seats need to be up (to direct heat forward to the cabin), the red slider on the dash needs to be far right (to direct it up to the glass) and the fan speed is controlled byt the **** at the front of the lower console (the fan lever on the dash only controls fresh air, not heat). Whew.
Also, is the A/C only controlled by the two ***** on the lower console as well? The same fan as the heat and with the left **** controlling the temperature?
Wow, this really is something to learn, though I'm sure it becomes second nature after a while.
If I understand correctly, then, to send heat to the windshield to defrost, the levers between the seats need to be up (to direct heat forward to the cabin), the red slider on the dash needs to be far right (to direct it up to the glass) and the fan speed is controlled byt the **** at the front of the lower console (the fan lever on the dash only controls fresh air, not heat). Whew.
Also, is the A/C only controlled by the two ***** on the lower console as well? The same fan as the heat and with the left **** controlling the temperature?
Wow, this really is something to learn, though I'm sure it becomes second nature after a while.
09-21-2006, 01:45 PM
#9
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Make sure you test every control on the car, including the seats, lights and ventilation controls. I only paid attention to the mechanical, body, interior, and just about everything else, and then when I bought mine, I found out I had 4 bad blowers and rusted-out heater valves. These are easy fixes, but they will cost $500-$1000 nonetheless...
09-21-2006, 01:52 PM
#10
Track Day
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Good thought. I tested the seats, lights, turn signals, etc. The PPI actually caught a few things I hadn't noticed. The hazard lights work on the outside of the car but the dash light appears to be burned out. The right front turn signal bulb was burned out (or the ground needs to be cleaned up... most likely the former). The car has manual seats and all of the adjustments worked. The back seat backs also folded and locked properly.
The fan motor blew strong, but now I'm not sure if i tested both controls, I think I only used the fresh air blower on the dash... not knowing how to operate the different controls properly.
I have to say that I was very impressed by the PPI I got for only $100. If you are in the South Bay area, Don's Autowerks in Campbell was the place.
The fan motor blew strong, but now I'm not sure if i tested both controls, I think I only used the fresh air blower on the dash... not knowing how to operate the different controls properly.
I have to say that I was very impressed by the PPI I got for only $100. If you are in the South Bay area, Don's Autowerks in Campbell was the place.
09-21-2006, 02:49 PM
#11
Originally Posted by Stevelovescars
If I understand correctly, then, to send heat to the windshield to defrost, the levers between the seats need to be up (to direct heat forward to the cabin), the red slider on the dash needs to be far right (to direct it up to the glass) and the fan speed is controlled byt the **** at the front of the lower console (the fan lever on the dash only controls fresh air, not heat). Whew.
Originally Posted by Stevelovescars
Also, is the A/C only controlled by the two ***** on the lower console as well? The same fan as the heat and with the left **** controlling the temperature?
Originally Posted by Stevelovescars
Wow, this really is something to learn, though I'm sure it becomes second nature after a while.
On an '84, you'll have 3 sets of fans. Fresh Air fan, A/C fan and booster fans for the heat. Each is controlled by a separate switch.
Some history to help explain this quirkiness: When the first 911's were built, you only had the fresh air fan (though I believe this fan was introduced in 1969). The engine fan was the only thing that pushed heated air forward. Over time, Porsche added the booster fans for more even heat output while the 911 was at low revs. Then, when A/C was added as an option, it was slapped onto the existing car's design as kind of an afterthought and is completely separate from the rest of the ventilation system. Some of the first A/C units were actually under dash units installed at the dealership level in some instances.
I too agree with Murphy above that one has to check all the electrical out, including how the heat works. Some of that stuff is very expensive to fix or diagnose.
Have fun with your Cabrio!
Jay
90 964
84 3.2