jsrieck

I want to buy a Porsche coupe. I think I have learned enough to ask some questions (i.e. I know what I don't know). Your help is greatly appreciated.

First - It seems to me that of the 3.2 Carrera cars the years to get are '87 & '88. The cumulative refinements and the G50 transmission make those cars the right choice. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Second - If I would like to save a little money and buy the SC, which years are the best?

Third - Is it penny wise and pound foolish to "save a little money" on an SC? Or will I eat up any savings fixing head studs, chain tensioners, and making the AC livable? Or do I simply refuse to buy an SC that has not had those things done?

I expect this car to be a near-daily-driver (but if it is in the shop every few months that wouldn't be a tremendous problem). Also, I am reasonably mechanically-minded, so I would try and do most maintenance and repairs myself.

Thanks!

JTSR

Peter Zimmermann

JT:
Also consider the '89s, which are a tiny bit better than the '88s, which are a little better than the '87s... BUT, don't rule out '84 - 86 3.2s either. A wonderful '86 is as good as 99% of the cars that Porsche has built. In all cases you have to find a qualified tech to do a PPI for you (please read my PPI thread near the top of page one), after all these cars are getting old. SCs on the other hand, also get better as development moved forward. The '83 is the best, and is a tiny bit better than an '82, which is a tiny bit better than an '81... Like the 3.2 cars, SCs are generally broken into two groups; the '78/79s, and the '80-83s. All are good cars, but head stud issues are found more often the earlier that the car is. There are also differences in running characteristics, the early group use smog pumps, while the late group uses Lambda with an oxy sensor and ECU. A counterpoint to an SC head stud repair is a Carrera that needs a valve job due to high oil consumption. My advice is to find the car that you really want to own, then get your PPI set up, etc. In the meantime read everything that you can get your hands on, there is a huge stockpile of good info out there.
Pete

imcarthur

Pete's being coy again. Buy his book. The one in his avatar. It is a great way to start your Porsche education. And the best advice he gave you was to get a PPI.

Ian

stormmaster

Drive an SC.....then drive an 84-86 Carrera....the engines are different....and you will feel the difference....then drive an 87-89 Carrera....the transmission is completely different...and you will really feel the difference between the two....choose for yourself...you will have to decide if there is enough difference to justify the difference in cost.....this comes from the owner of an 87....all cars you are considering are good choices....just remember that there are very good and very bad examples of all of them out there to choose from...so choose carefully.....just enjoy what you get

danoberer

In this case, it really is true to get "the newest one you can afford". All of these cars are getting quite old. I am biased, but the 89's are the last of the 3.2's, and will remain classics. Overall, very durable, reliable. PPI!!

racer

As someone always has to say, "but the nicest one you can afford". How "original" are you looking for? You may find a nice SC that has a 3.2 transplant.. best of both worlds! Don't "skimp" on your purchase. Make sure you have a thorough PPI performed. Make sure you find an SC that has been upgraded (valve covers, head studs, pop-off valve etc) or leverage it in the purchase price. Both the SC and Carerra are fun cars that are nearly bulletproof. Enjoy the search!

Rick964

DOn't be overly concerned about the 915 tranny. If you find a good one it will be great. I moved from a 90 C4 to an 80 SC and I have not regretted it once, these are light, nimble fun cars. The G-50 cars are fantastic too but weigh more and you may feel it.

DARISC

I bought my first Porsche about a year ago and feel I really lucked out. It's an 82 SC RoW coupe (extra hp) w/no AC, cup holders, etc., weighs only 2500 lbs. I wanted a light, simple, pure sports car w/no frills for my daily driver so I chose the SC and I'm really lovin' it - including the 915 and CIS, both of which work flawlessly.

Started out looking for a Carrera or a C2, but learned about SC's along the way and opted for lightness, crudeness and tossability ( heard the word "visceral" applied to it a number of times also) instead of a more refined and comfortable Carrera. Plus, I was swayed by the SC engine's long established reputation as "bullet proof", since I'm lousy at playing mechanic.

Rides hard, makes a lotta noise, gets not near the mpg that a Carrera does, is hotter than hell w/o AC but I love it because it's a pretty pure driver's car.

Just my choice (realize that my car does have a radio in it. I dunno if it works or not though - probably not since I had the hole in the roof, where the antenna was, filled in when I had it painted).

I'm sure you'll love whichever 911 you decide on.

faithless

Is your one point about valvejobs v. pulled studs to mean that the 3.2's engines suffer worse from valve guide wear than the 3.0? Is that because of undersizing the engine? (as it was with the evolution to the 2.7) How big of a role does timely valve adjustment play in maintaining straight valve guides?

I've rented Bruce Anderson's "performance handbook" and I've found it delightful reading and very informative. What does your book cover that I wont find in this one?

Peter Zimmermann

OK. First of all, SC head studs don't pull, they corrode, then break. As development of stud material improved stud breakage became much less a problem, rarely seen on '82/83 SCs or Carreras. The repair cost for 24 new studs is generally in the $2500 - 3000 range, which compares with the cost to perform a valve job on a 3.2 car, which are far more susceptible to valve guide wear. There are many theories as to why Carreras suffer from this problem, and SCs don't, and most of them are probably at least partially correct. The point as to why I mentioned this is that each model has the possibility of costing its buyer some money (neither car is perfect), which makes service records and pre-PPI information gathering extremely important.

My book was first offered for sale in 1980, well before other buyer's guides. Since then it has evolved into the 8th edition, including models through 2005. The book was originally written to keep innocent buyers from making a costly mistake and buying an abused car. As time passed I was able to catalog strengths and weaknesses of each year model, and because I was always a hands-on mechanic I was able to evaluate repair strategy using both knowledge and experience. The book continued to grow, I received positive feedback from many people, and eventually decided to stray from a simple year-to-year format and include information that I felt would be of interest to a wide array of buyers. The book, since day one, has always been intended to help and protect enthusiasts. It still does that, but the current edition contains information of a technical nature that, hopefully, will be found fascinating by most readers. I have tried to keep pace with Porsche, as they continue to load up each new model with a myriad of systems which actually work, and have tried to present those developments in a way that is both interesting and understandable. My book does not discuss race cars, or how to make your daily driver handle better at the weekend autox, or how to stuff a 3.3 Turbo motor into a '67 911, or which wheels will clear big red brake calipers. The book's purpose is to educate, and to deal with street legal, USA models, and talks of them from a purist's point of view.

Best, Pete

holtjv

I'll chime in on Pete's book, which I bought before I got my SC. The best thing about the book is that it does not pull any punches-it's like talking to your neighbor who's had 10 or 15 p-cars from each era and knows them all well. So there's little or no wishy washy language. My only complaint is that it could be a bit deeper and less broad but I understand that Pete was trying to appeal to all Porsche buyers.

Sorry. Didn't mean for this to sound like an amazon review...maybe I'll cut and paste....J

holtjv

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/096...lance&n=283155

Jay Gratton

I would go with the nicest, newest 911 you can afford in your price range. I have an '85 911 without the G50 and it is fine to drive. Don't get to hung up on the G50, as all of these cars are wonderful.

holtjv

Oh. Here's a direct opinion to your question: make sure to take stormmaster's advice and drive several. If not, you're EXTREMELY likely to buy the first one, or type, you drive--the cars can make you very emotional and you'll love each one, but for different reasons. My SC experience mirrors DARISC's--very light (mine's down to about 2400lbs), loud, rough ride--you've heard it all. j

Jay Laifman

Drive drive drive lots of examples. I have a '73 911 (for 18 years) and have driven all the newer ones, 76, 80, 84, [gap] 90, 93, 97 etc. and I always came back to the same feeling, MINE was lighter, more tossable, more sound, more fun than all of them, even the SC that so many rave about. Sure it was not as fast, did not stop as quickly, did not handle as well. But, I found it more fun. I knew I would never trade my car for any of them, not for a second.

That said, note the "gap" I put up there. Until very recently, I had not driven the 87-89 cars. I few years ago, I needed a newer car. I decided on a Boxster S, which I love, especially now that it has a 2003 Porsche factory sport exhaust. A year after that, I got the chance to drive and push an '87 for a considerable amount of time. I LOVED that car! Had I driven one before I got the Boxster, I'm pretty sure I would have gotten one instead of the Boxster. Note that there is very little difference between the '87 and the '84. But, for me, that little difference was enough. And, I would not trade my Boxster S for a 993 at all.

The point is not that an '87 is great for you, it's that there are subtle differences and only you can sense what makes it work for you. Oh, and on the 915/G50 tranny issue, I'm very happy with my 915 and would not make the decision based on the tranny.