JBsZ06

I was just curious as I've continually read how porsche is shooting itself in the foot because potiential 911 buyers who drive the Cayman S will divert their purchase of a 911 to get the less expensive Cayman S?

I've always been so impressed with the 911 and although the Cayman S is a great sports car...

I just don't see selling a 911 or a buyer with his sights set on a 911 will often divert their purchase to get a Cayman S..

Can you possibly give insight as to what your opinions are...?

Thanks in advance

JB

Gary R.

Two very different cars. A 911 buyer usually knows what he wants IMO and it isn't a Boxster Coupe. That's not to say the Caymen won't be attractive to some potential new 997 buyers, just that saving $25K won't be the deciding factor..

fixnprsh

they are two different cars, there will always be a "911" buyer in what ever form it comes from

wwest

The 911 needs to have the engine "flipped" in order to compete with the Cayman's future.

JackOlsen

It's easy to forget how un-representative most of us are of the majority of new Porsche buyers.

To most buyers, the appeal of the 911 is that it is an exotic luxury car that functions as a kind of trophy for their achievements. It's less expensive and more understated than a Ferrari, but it retains some of the Ferrari's 'nonconformist' allure. These buyers are going to floor the accelerator pedal very occasionally, in a straight line on the freeway, probably, and think that the defining virtue of their new car is its power. More often than that, they're just going to drive around on their normal commute, enjoying the fact that their unusual European car attracts a lot of looks, kind of like a four-wheeled Rolex.

Ask those guys about their car, and they will inevitably exaggerate its sticker price and its top speed. They won't know anything about Porsche's current racing efforts. They won't know that a thing called 'club racing' even exists.

To most 911 buyers, the big shortcoming of the Cayman is that it's less expensive (and therefore less exclusive) than the 911. They don't care where the engine is at all. They will never take it to a track. They will never go online to talk about the car. Even the term 'buyers' is probably misleading. What percentage of 2006 Porsches will be leased, or sold to a company that will lease them?

For us, it's different. If I were shopping for a new Porsche, it would either be the Carrera S or the Cayman S, depending on the final stats I see for the Cayman. One of them is a more capable road and track car, and that's what would be important to me. I haven't seen a convincing argument for either, yet.

What's the Cayman weigh, by the way?

LaughaC

I like the Cayman better than the new 911, so, yes, I think Porsche took a piece out of their new 911 market. However, I would also rather have 3 used P-cars than one new one.

earlyapex

Interesting analysis, Jack. I guess I'm abnormal!

Weight 2,948 lbs.
Source: "Excellence", Sept, 05.

JackOlsen

If you've ever logged in to Rennlist or driven your car on a race track, then you're definitely in the tiny minority (like maybe 1%?) of Porsche owners.

84_Carrera

Honestly, coming from my '84, IF I had the funds for either car, AND I could live with the lack of jump seats (have a 6 year old son), I'd likely pick the Cayman S at this point, due to the mid-engine, and I'd probably add the PCCB brakes after doing more research on it.

Power's nice, but it's not the end-all / be-all. Handling & braking mean a lot to me too.

At the end of the day though, the $20k I have in the '84 911 is about all I can afford anyway. Next P-car would likely be a nice 993, or possibly a 930. I'm not all that interested in the water-cooled cars, honestly. I don't mind the looks of the 996, but the mystique isn't there for me on the newer driveline & chassis. I think the 997 is a real looker, wish I had the funds to drop.

As for the Boxster / Cayman, the mid-engine's balance coupled with enough power (275-325hp is my sweet spot on a sub-3000-lb chassis) is a great combo. I do like the look of the Cayman, but not as mush as the 997.

It's inevitable that Porsche will lose SOME of its own customers to a new platform, but I think they'll attract more non-Porsche customers to the new platform than they will lose from another of their own. How long the 911 survives will depend on their ability to maintain links to the classic, while continuing to develop & pursue new performance / status directions, all while effectively marketing. I went to drive a manual CTS once, had it in my head that's the car I was willing to consider, and the dealership told me I didn't really want that; they sold FAR more Auto CTS's than manuals... I looked square at the salesman & asked if he had a manual CTS on the lot, he said yes. I then rolled my eyes dumbfounded, and finally asked him, "do you know WHY you sell more automatics? "well we just sell more, I don't know exactly why..."

If Porsche drops the 911 off the radar scope in an effort to push the Cayman, yes, IMHO you'll probably see the 911 become a more expensive / lower production car like the GT3's, etc., while they push the production numbers on the Cayman. This might eventually lead to the decision to drop the line (like the CGT). It'll be interesting to see what happens in 2010-2012, after the new line's been established & entrenched for awhile. Would also be interesting to see what Porsche has in mind for racing the Cayman, though I seem to recall them stating it wouldn't be a competitive platform.

Thoughts from the mind of a guy who gets 1 hour of sleep at a time. Pay no heed.

BER

Very well said Jack.

Most of the new 911 owers buy for image. You mention Zuffenhausen to them and they have no clue. We're enthusists and love the history and superior driving qualities of the marque. It's that simple.

Ever wave at a new 997...! They probably think you're flipping them off.

r911

Hmmm, so let's see - how abnormal are we?

Figure P AG made 1 million 'old' 911s... 70% still on the road ---> 700,000 'old' cars. Divide that # into the # of people who have ever logged onto to - say - Pelican (30,000) and you get ... about 4%. A much smaller number if you use the number who have ever posted on Pelican. A bit bigger # if you counted the # cars registered in the US. But it's small. We are abnormal.

fixnprsh

yeah....................a porsche with cup holders............thats the first sign of something wrong...............dont get me wrong, I've driven more 911's than probably most people on here, from a 911 S to a GT2, 997 Carrera S working for the dealers and independant shops, the ONLY ones that still have the soul in my eyes, are the GT3, 997 Carrera S and to a more frightening sense because im a loony, the GT2, the 996TT is a fatty that likes to understeer and costs the same as a super nice 930, and a nice 2.7S combined,

given the choice, I would take the later, something of the sound of the fan humming behind you, the noise of the motor with valves that need adjusting, the smell of gas and oil and german interior......THAT is waht it means to me, Not a Newport beach bar hopping ***** mobile that sees full throttle only when I would have it for service and I wipe the latte stains off its poor leather and give it the work out it needs.

LaughaC

Good point, my brother bought a 2000 C4 996 a few months ago and hates the understeer. My Lincoln Mark VIII gave me all the straight line power and luxury I needed, plus 29 MPG on the hiway. It was like driving a barker lounge chair. That's okay sometimes, but my lowered '77 handles like it's on rails and I enjoy the patina and smell of real car.

bbh03

Right, I don't disagree with anything above, but think about 15-20 years from now. Do you think we'll be talking about the good old days* of the 997 and what is with these heavy-*** new P-cars with DVD players (or whater they have then) and other crap that are susstantially purchased by yuppies?

*And of course there will be the good old-old days of the air cooled 911!

Was that coherent? I think I need some sleep.

Corrales911

Hah! Well stated. My wife says my 911 smells like an old Volkswagon and sounds "obnoxious", and doesn't understand why I think its endearing. Course she also didn't understand my affection for the wrung-out C150 I flew once apon a time...