turbocarrera.

Well, nexusone, I hang out with a bunch of rice rocketeers. They all want to drive my car, practically beg me to let them. I finally let my freind, who has a modified SupraTurbo, drive it and he is looking for a 78-79 911 turbo right now. His car is just a little quicker than mine in a straight line but when I asked him what he liked about my car he said he didn't know how to say it, "It's just so much fun!" was the best he could come up with.
I like Hondas, Toyotas, whatever, but they have very little character. They are quick, efficient, reliable, but they just aren't much fun imo. They ahve no soul.
As far as Porsche engineering goes, why is my car as fast as an NSX, Hondas state of the art sportscar, when my car is 25 years old? Riddle me that.
As far as 911 drivers being rude, that's definitely uncommon. Every one that I know(not many in my little town) is about the nicest person you could ever meet, and is appreciative and respectful of most any enthusiasts car. I know some of them get tired of ahving every single street racer try to cal them out just so they can say "I beat a Porsche." It gets very tiring.

JBrown

are we all forgeting that there is a 911 (turbo)!!! will little mods this car is hard to beat. lets see that honda run up to me on the highway. i give these little rice burners there credit but i will take the 911 turbo on the highway any day. my freind in florida complains about how many times are these little jap cars going to try to play with my 400 horsepower 944 turbo. but then again i drive a 911 sc with a 3.2 shortstroke turbo.

ploglet

What a shame that we have to have the Honda slammer on the Porsche board. I still don't understand why anyone who has such a large distaste for the Porsche and the owners of them would even want to waste his, or her in this case, time on with the board? Did you get kicked off the Honda Prelude board? I don't know about you but I think that you are just tired of getting snubbed by Porsche owners who upon you trying to get them to "race" just look the other way. That is usually not the Porsche owner being a snob but more likely being smart. Neve really like the Honda "Mower" much anyway.

dpeel

I know I haven't posted on here for a while. However, after reading nexus's note I feel compelled to say this. I know there has been a lot made of the stereotypical Porsche owner's snobery. I too once wondered what it was all about. I have never found out, to tell you the truth, not here not anywhere. I just can't seem to really find any snob Porsche owners. A lot of a gentile Porschefiles here, but I only ever saw one Porsche snob, and he got flamed. If you want snobbery, I'd look elsewhere. I find a lot a Corvetteforum, although I also find lots of great people there too.

Oh, and my dad might be getting a new Ford Thunderbird, if he does, he's going to give me his 928.

t.p.

What I find the funniest about guys in supposedly fast hondas, mr2's, etc. is that they never acknowledge when a race is over. I'll be cruising on the freeway in my 930 and some chump w/ a crappy sounding exhaust will pull up next to me and want to race. I'll usually give him a few car lengths and then blow past him till I'm an exit or two ahead. then I'll slow down to the speed limit again. without a doubt, several seconds later the honda will fly past me at over 100 thinking he won the race. the same goes for mustang owners in their late teens / early twenties. they install a chip and some crappy cone filter and think they have a fast car.

if you're ever on 280 in NorCal after 11:00p.m. you get tons of these guys wanting to race. i'll only let'em have it if there's no traffic. what surprises me is their willingness to race regardless of conditions. morons.

ZAMIRZ

[quote]Originally posted by t.p.:
<strong>What I find the funniest about guys in supposedly fast hondas, mr2's, etc. is that they never acknowledge when a race is over. I'll be cruising on the freeway in my 930 and some chump w/ a crappy sounding exhaust will pull up next to me and want to race. I'll usually give him a few car lengths and then blow past him till I'm an exit or two ahead. then I'll slow down to the speed limit again. without a doubt, several seconds later the honda will fly past me at over 100 thinking he won the race. the same goes for mustang owners in their late teens / early twenties. they install a chip and some crappy cone filter and think they have a fast car.

if you're ever on 280 in NorCal after 11:00p.m. you get tons of these guys wanting to race. i'll only let'em have it if there's no traffic. what surprises me is their willingness to race regardless of conditions. morons.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ever heard of the term "GM Pass", cuz that's what you're describing. It's happened to me before, I raced this beaten down CRX with bright blue paint and missing front hub caps.....I took him easily by about 5-6 cars and still accelerating, so I ease up on the brake and wave.....next thing i know homeboy goes from slowing down to flooring it by me as I hear his exhaust buzzing.....it's such a joke, some of these kids trying to GM pass you. Don't get me started on the V6 Mustang crew that prowl the streets of the l.a. valley at night.

later,

amir

R. Santore

ricers are everywhere, especially bad here for some odd reason(wichita, ks).. as for the comment made that the guys in mustangs are also like that, i agree but at least they have more of a reason becuase a stock 96-98 cobra can at least hang with a stock 930 turbo(wont beat it i know). Being a guy who has both a 911 turbo and a supercharged mustang GT, i see both sides, and to the porsche owners who laugh off stangs, be careful, my GT might just surprise you a little but also you are right.. there are alot of young musclecar owners who dont know what they are doing, and there are obviously alot less porsche owners like that.. maybe thats why porsche owners get a raw deal from that crowd?? either way, the whole "ricer" mentality is the one aspect of cars i'll never respect.. those cars(accords, civics, KIA's, HYUNDAI) were not built to be sports cars and they have no soul... just my 2cents <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" />

ZAMIRZ

It's not even the Mustang guys, just the V6 boys with the giant Roush decal on their back bumper.....the V6 Mustang even for a semi-performance car is a joke. I like the new Cobras though, I'm glad Ford put the IRS out back....really livens the handling up. Too bad you'll snap a half-shaft after a day at the drag strip (who gives a **** about going fast in a straight line anymore though????). Yeah, I don't beat down on the V8 F-bodies and Mustangs anymore, my friends new 4.6 liter GT will take my 911 fairly easily, eh time for 3.3 K29 swap....when i get the money . OK, enough outta me.

later,

amir

Carrera51

Before my first P-car, I had a 92 5.0 Mustang, modified with Flowmaster exhaust including an H pipe, drilled airbox with a K&N, Accel coil and wires. It was a blast in a straight line, but didn't handle very well, and had less than adequate brakes. It seems that the non-german performance cars have less than adequate brakes. (I can't speak for Italian cars since I have never driven one). Also, in my opinion, the germans are the best when it comes to suspension. Drive a Nissan Maxima SE, then get into a 3 or 5 series Bimmer and you'll see what I am talking about.

aquabat911

I havent driven an older vettte but I have driven selveral Shelby Cobras and a few Shelby Mustangs. My Porsche is much more fun to drive than the either of the muscle cars. A mustang is a mustang whoopi The cobra on the other hand is a completely different animal. You never realy feel like you have any control in the cobra. They are so incredibly over powered its rediculous. The most "fun to drive" Cobra I have been in was a 289 not a 427. In my P-car I at least feel secure, even before I put the cage in. In the Cobras you feel like your vulnerable to the world, the door only cups up to your second ribe, the rest of you is hangin out in the wind. You can never get comfortable in the cobra and you always burn your calf on the side pipe getting out, at least once. Anyway now for the Hondas, First I like just about all types of cars, and have driven most cars including several hondas. I have had several friends with hondas. They all think their cars are sooo much fun to drive and sooo fast but they have driven a fast car or a realy fun to drive car. I had a vw passat, big wheels race suspension motor mods the whole thing, it was fun but it is nothing compared to my 911. If you like your Honda great, enjoy, but everytime I have helped one of my friends work on theirs I am continualy suprised at how cheap they can build cars. Everythin in the car is made as cheap as possible. All the components are as thin as they coulde possibly make them and the metal is a joke. To say they have superior engineering is a joke, take it from someone who has worked in engineering for a car company. Honda may build decent cars for the money, but they are NOT setting any kind of new standards, OH YEAH go drive a new VW 1.8 turbo GTi, you will trade in your civic in a second.

nexusone

Thank you to those of you who actually have something to say. Let me make it clear that I have no gripes, complaints, or other issues with Porsche cars. They're great machines, and well engineered. And perhaps those of you here on the board are by and far non-snobs. I'll even go so far as to say that perhaps I'm simply catching the brunt of what seems to be a universal dislike of people who drive "rice" cars. It doesnt make me an ******* though, and I'm tired of getting flipped off, cut off and otherwise generally inconsiderate behavior from what in my experience seems to be primarily porsche drivers. You're not all this way, but what I have -seen- on the roads in recent months reflects this.

Someone said something about the Jap cars lacking character... while I don't agree, I can understand how someone might think that. They are small and light, buzz and vibrate, and go like mad. They do lack that "substantial" feeling that I suspect many people equate with character. You know that feeling when you close a door and it makes that substantial sound rather than sounding hollow?

*shrug* I know a couple of S2000 drivers that regularly spank 911 turbos on the track. I'd have to double check with them which track that has happened at. Thunderhill for sure, and perhaps Laguna Seca.

Hey, to each their own. I'd just appreciate it if more people thought twice before writing off every "rice" car and driver on the road.

To those of you who expressed some understanding. Thanks. To the rest.... I don't have anything to say. You'll never get it.

R. Santore

nor do i think you'll ever get it nexus.... you came to a porsche enthuisasts board to talk about how slightly modded hondas can kill 911s, with no facts to back that claim up... you talk about S2000s and cars like that, IMHO that is not rice.. nor is an NSX, integra type R or GSR, or even a civic Si.. those cars came from the factory with an intention to be sports cars.. the accord, civic ex however, were not.. when i call someone a ricer or say they have rice, it has to do with the mentality and the car, because the one fact you fail to report is that for every P-car owner you run into that you think is a snob, there are HUNDREDS of ricers out there doing all kinds of stupid things on the streets nearly killing me or other motorists. So before you wonder why the p-car owners might stereotype you, take a look around at your fellow "enthusiasts", and tell them to take their crazy street driving tactics to the race track.. that is all <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" />

t.p.

Given two equal drivers, one in a 911 turbo (i'm assuming recent vintage) and the other in an S2000, the 911 wins (except maybe on a track as small as a merry-go-round.

Based on what you have in your car, I would guess your engine pumps out in the low 200s (210-235?). If you have more than that, you're lying about the 35k "hard miles."

You may be able to take a stock Carrera or SC, but a turbo? You're on crack. If you have taken a turbo, it was probably a 930 that the owner didn't want to launch off the line. 930s have a lot of lag. But I'll promise you this, on the freeway, a stock, well-maintained 930 will kick your ***.

JackOlsen

I know a couple of S2000 drivers that regularly spank 911 turbos on the track. I'd have to double check with them which track that has happened at. Thunderhill for sure, and perhaps Laguna Seca.

This is a commonly-made type of observation, and it's just plain lame. On my first day on a track, I 'spanked' a Turbo, plenty of 993's and a 996 -- in a 28-year-old 911 with a 125 hp engine in it. Does that mean my car was faster? Of course not. It was a track day and DE with a bunch of guys who were also new to a track and who weren't nearly the equal of the cars they were driving. For the record, I wasn't the equal of my 2.2, back then, either. I was just more willing than they were to risk wrecking it.

This isn't a dig on you, nexus, but on the kind of boast that starts from someone getting waved past by a lawyer in his new Ferrari and then announcing that their Mustang (or whatever) is a faster track car than the Italian model.

Apples-to-apples comparisons almost never exist in the real world. A good tuner can take a decades-old Dodge Omni and turn it into a Viper killer with enough money and time. Side-by-side comparisons of stock models, with drivers who are at the same skill level will suss out some differences, but even then you've got to decide what handling and performance virtues you're going to value the most. The S2000 is a pretty good car. So is the NSX, and so is an M3. None of them has the number of race victories or the long-term value of the 911, but so what? Everybody's got to find the car that's right for them.

J-RAD

From nexusone: "Any true auto enthusiast should follow at least loosely a smattering of the current performance offerings."

I wonder then, when will you'll make to the enthusiast category based on your own statement?
Now, you can consider me a ***** if you want but I don't care...just remember that I didn't go to your board and start spewing crap, you came to ours. I'm going to call this the way I see it... You came to a Porsche board looking to get a rise of out of people. Congrats, you've succeeded. However, you also succeeded in showing your complete ignorance, something I suspect you didn't plan to do. To top it off, while spouting off about things that you obviously have no clue about, you had the ***** to call the people here arrogant!?! If you're getting flipped the bird, rather than blame someone else and call them names, maybe you should take a look at yourself and your actions. Your actions are exactly the type that give most people a bad taste in their mouth when it comes to "ricers". Maybe it will give you comfort to know that you aren't the only import driver to make an *** of himself and "his crowd". If you sense distain, it's probably for a very good reason. Now, it's time to put down the bong and pay attention for a minute...

First, there's a saying that you need to abide to: "it is better to keep your mount shut and let people think you're an idiot rather than open it and remove all doubt". Second, I am very familiar with the cars you claim to love and the cars that I love. Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with people that want to fix up imports...that's their deal. Different strokes for different folks, whatever floats your boat, and so on. I actually prefer the VW cars (I owned a modified 1.8T until last year). In general, I don't like the Asian imports for a number of reasons but that's simply personal preference. There is no question that some import cars such as Supras and RX-7's have significant dollars dumped into them by true enthusiasts and they are impressive rides in their own right. However, most of your statements here are simply your opinions of how you would like to see things and, unfortunately for you, they're absolutely unfounded. I can't begin to tell you how ridiculous your following statements are:
In reference to Hondas in general: "...with a few mods you can eat Porsches for breakfast. In the straights, but especially in the turns."
Followed by the the all-time classic: "Why do the 911 turbos cost so much money when a slightly modified honda can beat the pants off them?"
Then you put your money on the table. You stated you have: "35k HARD miles on a supercharged 1.8l B18C1 motor with stock internals..." . A B18C1 engine (Integra GSR stock), supercharged, with stock internals. Let's see...~170 hp at the crank, stock. Say, ~144 hp at the wheels with drivetrain loss ( <a href="http://members.aol.com/josh3030/specifications.html" target="_blank">Integra Specs</a> ). Checking the Jackson Racing website ( <a href="http://www.jacksonracing.com/pages/details/detailspage.html" target="_blank">Jackson Racing</a> )...~208 hp at the wheels, ~245 hp at the crank. Not bad...but I doubt you're gonna have too many 911's in your rearview. I will say that despite being a FWD car, the GSR actually does handle pretty well but it can't come close to cornering with any knowledgable 911 driver...let alone "eat them in the curves". I can't begin to tell you how foolish that statement is.

As for the other Honda cars you speak of, let's take a look. I wonder where all these Honda-powered 911 Turbo eaters are...
First, here's a site that has compiled many years worth of performance numbers for all kinds of cars from a number of independent sources (i.e. magazines such as Car and Driver, Motor Trend, Automobile, etc...):
<a href="http://web.missouri.edu/~apcb20/times.html#Porsche" target="_blank">Acceleration Times</a>
Note that the slowest 911 Turbo tested from 0-60 was 5.1 sec in 1989, although the 1986 Turbo did it in 5 sec. flat. Newer Turbos are doing it in under 4 sec.!!! Even the mid-90' N/A 911's were turning low 5's. Except for the most recent NSX's 1997+ (which are $80K cars), no Honda manufactured car was under 5 secs...the earlier NSX's were mid to high 5's. Also, note the 1/4 mile times.

Since the previous site unfortunately doesn't contain info on the S2000, I thought I'd be kind and attach a couple links for you. One even tests a modified, race ready S2000:
<a href="http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/features/2001/February/200012_feature_s2000.xml?Manufacturer=Honda&Name=S2000&class=20" target="_blank">Car and Driver - S2000 Race Ready</a>
<a href="http://www.motortrend.com/nov99/hondas2000/hondas2000_f.html" target="_blank">MotorTend Test - S2000</a>
<a href="http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/previews/1999/August/199908_preview_honda_s2000.xml?Manufacturer=Honda&Name=S2000&class=20" target="_blank">Car and Driver Test - S2000</a>
Notice the 0-60 times? 5.8 secs! And that's only after revving the hell out of the car...driving it like you stole it. If you let the revs drop, it REALLY bogs down. Now, the S2000 is a fairly impressive performer for the price but it can't even match the performance level of a N/A 911 let alone a 911 Turbo! Yet, you say it will "beat the pants off them!" Can your "slight" modifications drop 2 full seconds off the 0-60 acceleration?! A comparison to a Boxster or Boxster S is more appropriate for the S2000.

Now that's just looking at acceleration. Certainly a number of other factors are important to a cars performance - braking, handling, and so on. All of which Porsche excels at...the outcome doesn't change. Here are some recent tests to check out:
N/A 911:
<a href="http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/roadtests/1996/July/199607_longterm.xml?Manufacturer=Porsche&Name=911%20Carrera&class=21" target="_blank">Car and Driver Test - 1996 911</a>
<a href="http://www.motortrend.com/oct99/lt911/lt911_f.html" target="_blank">Motor Trend Test - 1999 911</a>
GT2 (when you are ready to really get serious):
<a href="http://www.motortrend.com/june01/porsche/porsche_f.html" target="_blank">Motor Trend Test GT2</a>
Boxster/S:
<a href="http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/previews/1999/September/199909_preview_porsche_boxsters.xml?Manufacturer=Porsche&Name=Boxster&cl ***=20" target="_blank">Car and Driver Test - Boxster S</a>
<a href="http://www.motortrend.com/feb00/boxster/boxster_f.html" target="_blank">Motor Trend Test - Boxster</a>

Now, hopefully the next time you won't go to a site and start talking smack...but if you do, actually try to back up some of your statements with some intelligent documentation. Otherwise we'll just continue to assume that you're a pimple faced 16 year old that just simply doesn't know any better. We'll be ready to talk intelligently about cars when you're ready.

BTW, just because YOU want to race someone on the highway doesn't mean that you actually did race and beat them because you chose to act like a foolish juvenile and accelerate past them. I think most people here, myself included, simply ignore the antics of people like yourself on the highway.

...more than enough said!