dascar

I'm sniffing around an 84 Carrera Turbo Look car to replace my standard 84 Carrera. The new one has 95k on it and is going for $27k (mine has 145k and runs great). I just love the look and it's in better shape overall, but I'm having a tough time justifying the extra $10k for the wide body, suspension and brakes (and of course, better condition overall). I'm also worried about the add'l weight of the car when it's time to go to a DE with the club. But, wow, is that car gorgeous! Your input, please!

fixnprsh

if you look you can find an actual turbo for that price, they can fit wider tires but the areo dynamics slow you down on straights (thats why 930's have that hair dryer, one hand washes the other!) as far as weight, they arent too much heavier, im not sure but my guesstimate would be like less than 100 lbs. I like turbo looks but that seems kinda high, anyone else think so?

r911

A Porsche is the quintessential performance car. The turbo-look body _hurts_ performance (wind resistance). It would be better to put tail fins on a Cadillac (not supposed to be an honest car anyway) than to do this.

johnnyquest

I happen to like the turbolook, but agree with fixnprsh that for close to $30K you can get the real thing, and not have to worry about driving a "pretender." Then you can own the straights instead of cursing the extra wind resistance.

2002M3Drew

Wow, kinda surprised at those opinions! I LOVE the TL, and had I been looking to spend in that price range for my 911, I would have bought one ion a heartbeat! The body is just drop-dead gorgeous (as you have pointed out), and it has the venerable 3.2 normally-aspirated motor and all of its inherant reliability (and does without the normal pitfalls of turbo cars). None of these cars are aerodynamic, and I can't imagine the wider body being such a problem for only DE.

Besides, you also get the upgrades brakes and wider track (room for wider wheels and tires). What you lose in the straights, you more than make up for in the twisties.

One more thing...the TLs command a lot more value than a standard Carrera, even now when the type-930 911s are out of production 15 years. Given their low production numbers, you would definitely be getting a more valuable car that will continue to hold a premium over the standard car.

I'd go for it!!

2002M3Drew

If the factory turbo-lool is a pretender, are the 993 Carrera S and 4S models also fakes because they have wide bodies and turbo spoilers?

JonM..

They are great cars, the "real" turbos are a real pain in the butt and pocket book been there done that. Unless your running flat out on the autobahn the wind resistance would not matter. Most of the above opinions sound like envy to me, the wind resistance argument just does not hold water. And the improved handling (best handling car in the US in 1986) and greatly improved braking more than out weighs and the minor weight and aero penalty. Plus the car is just so darn beautiful.

johnnyquest

To some perhaps. Anything designed to look like something it's not requires an explanation why it isn't what it looks like. You would always face the prospect of someone (non-pcar guy) asking in the parking lot ... "That's a turbo isn't it?" And the reply ... " Uh, no actually." Point is, you're bound to run into folks who want to bust your chops for the car looking like a turbo without the spinner.

This is not an issue for me and it's ironic you mention the 993 C2S and C4S. Years ago, what reignited my long held passion for these cars was poking my head into a Porsche dealership (while dropping off an Audi for service) and seeing on the floor a 993C2S coupe in arena red. Must have been an '97 or '98 and I was smitten by the sexy curves, its hips, like a woman with a great a$$ in tight burgundy leather pants. Love that body style and hope to have one someday - no turbos for me - I'm a fan of naturally aspirated engines.

fixnprsh

I wont argue but it does have higher wind resistance and rolling resistance from the wider tires. period. Physics is physics, it really does. Remember the 924S? A 944 in a 924 skin? that car was significantly faster on a straight. Its not envy, paying that much for a turbo look car is nuts. Turbo looks were just that, look, sure it had the bigger brakes and suspension, but it doesn't have the motor, 930 values seem to keep going up, they aren't that troublesome and exspensive unless you have to crack open the motor, then its really no more than my 3.2, and can be made to go super fast as we all know. you said you would use it on the track, thats what a turbo is bred for you know.

adsc4s

The 993 S cars did not have the turbo rear spoiler. To call them "fake" is not accurate. They are "Turbo Looks". They are great cars.

g-50cab

I'm sure someone will pipe up here and say that they are called "Super Sports" in other countries.... Yes, they are rare. Yes they have the upgraded suspension and brakes. Yes, you can stick wider tires on them. I still say that if they are close in price pony up for the Turbo. Otherwise if you DE the brakes are definitely a nice and worthwhile upgrade.

2002M3Drew

Think you missed my point...I was arguing that they are NOT fakes, but factory body styles with a genuine place in Porsche history.

Not sure you are correct about the spoilers on the 4S, though...I know of at east one that has it...perhaps it was an option?

JCP911S

dascar...which are better blonds or brunettes?... TL will most likely hold its price differential.... all that matters is whether it is worth $10k to you.

"Real" turbos are more expensive to maintain which is why the prices are comparable.... they also have alot of turbo lag.... the NA car is probably more responsive in real world driving.

Jay H

Wow, lots of negative opinions on the TL around here...

Keep in mind that Porsche introduced the TL in '84 to allow US buyers to legally obtain the wide body look of the Turbo when there was no actual Turbo available. It was your only choice in 1984 and 1985 if you wanted a factory widebody. Porsche also wanted a piece of the pie that aftermarket companies were getting by converting narrow body cars to wide body cars. The production numbers of the TL dropped off considerably in 1986 when the Turbo became available in the US market.

I say screw what other people think and buy what you like. The $7-10k premium over a narrow body '84 seems a bit high to me though... For $27k, this car better be very well maintained and in exceptional condition.

My brother owns an '83 SC that was converted to a Turbo look back in the late '80's. After miles and miles of comparisons between my '86 3.2 (when I had it) and his 3.0 Turbo look, it's almost impossible to feel this wind resistance that people claim above. His car can easily keep up with narrow body 3.2 cars. Yes, physics are physics (and I agree the wide body cars will have more resistance in the wind tunnel due to the flairs and bigger rear tires), but on normal US roads, this point is pretty mute. It's still a fast and very fun car.

I'd go for the wide body, upgraded suspension and brakes anyday if that is what you like. Would anyone here honestly rip on a fellow 911 owner that had a Turbo Look and accuse them of being a poser? If you did, that would be pretty sad... After having the car below in the family since 1997, we've yet to run into anyone that has ripped on the car (and we've overheard many a conversation at concours events and such) for not being a true Turbo (or even a factory TL).

Here's my brother's car:


Best,

Jay
90 964

JBO

I Love the TL, and to me it is worth more than a narrow body in similar condition, but not 10k more. It was 10 or 15k more new, but so what? You can do a wide body conversion on a narrow car for around $10k with steel flares, but on resale "may" get 2k of that back. For street driving you will notice NO difference whatsoever in performance. Besides, you can get the same performance as the turbo by adding a Type R sticker and cool collar Many narrow bodies have fited the same size tires as the TL, so that's a non-issue. That 84 is overpriced and should be a 20k car at best. That seller is unrealistic and it will sit for a long time (forever) at that price.