borowiec

After over a year of autocrossing in a 75 911S Targa, I think I'm ready for some suspension upgrades. The car has stock Boge touring shocks, everything else is stock too.

I can't afford to do everthing at once; which of the following should I do first, which would make the most difference:

strut tower brace (which I can put in myself right now)
Targa body braces (which I can put in myself)
stiffer shocks: Bilstein? Koni? Which ones? Do I need to upgrade torsion bars at the same time or can I put in shocks now, torsion bars at some later date?
Bigger torsion bars (what size, brand?)
Bigger front and rear sway bars (what size, brand?)
Turbo tie rods

Anything else?

I'm inclined to do the first two items first because they are relatively inexpensive and I can do the work myself. I can put it shocks myself, too, if I can get away with using the original torsion bars for a while.

Thanks in advance!

Andrew

1975 911S Targa

pjc

Adjustable Bilstein first - your car was offered these as an option so no other work required. Turbo tie rods are nice to have because they make the drive feel less frantic on the wheel but do nothing for performance. Changing torsion bars is more complex and others may be able to advise.

Sway bars I would forget - yours must be 20mm, plenty of beef there.

That's my 2 cents.

PJC

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Andrew:


Well sir, tires make the single biggest difference in the AutoX game so that should be first.

After that, you'll need to do some upgrades at one time due to the need for cornerweight & alignment:

1) Larger torsion bars and shocks. I recommend Bilsteins for those on a budget. They, like all Bilsteins (not PSS-9) are NOT adjustable, but if they are properly valved to match the spring rates, they work very well.

2) Bushings. I use, sell, & recommend the Elephant Poly-bronze ones. These are greasable and truly reduce the friction at these pivots.

3) Front strut brace

4) Adjustable swaybars. Do NOT skimp and go cheap here; get the good stuff and you'll never buy these all over again. Smart Racing bars are the only way to go.

5) Turbo tie rods. These are cheap and should be installed before your alignment.


Every case is different and each person's performance expections determines exactly what components are chosen.

Please e-mail me directly and I can make some specific recommendations after I know how much experience you have.

Pat S

Agree 100% with Steve... if you can afford it

I couldn't get it all so on my 74 I went with the following:
- Tires (Yokos on the street, Hoosier for autocross)
- Bigger Torsion bars (21mm Front, 26mm Rear)
- Adjustable Koni shocks (reds on the front, yellow sports on the rear)
- Polycarbonate bushings (couldn't afford Elephants)
- Turbo Tie rods
- Larger sway bars 20mm front 18mm rear, non-adjustable (couldn't afford adjustables yet)
- I didn't do a strut brace yet but will at some point...

Another big thing for AutoX will be to corner balance.

As a novice autoXer I really like the set up. It's comfortable on the street and a blast on the "track".

Pat

Pat

borowiec

Everyone:

Thanks for your replies. Regarding Bilsteins, there appear to be two types available: Sport and HD. What is the difference, what is recommended?

Steve: I've read great things about Smart Racing's products, but I think they might be out of my price range, based on their ads in Panorama. I'm trying to make whatever improvements I can do relatively cheaply, one step at a time

Pat: I was under the impression that 74-77 911s had 18 mm sway bars in the rear as standard equipment. Mine is also supposed to have 20 mm in front as standard, though if your 74 is not an S, then front would be 16 mm. Did you have all those things done at the same time or one by one? If not at the same time, what was the order in which you had the changes made? I've been told by more experienced autocrossers that the most important upgrade (after tires, of course) is front and rear sway bars but that there could be a problem if the sway bars are beefed up but the torsion bars are the original ones - the sway bars then function as the car's springs.

Andrew

Pat S

Andrew,
I have a regular, not an S so I have a 16mm front and no rear sway bar. I also did them all at the same time... Well okay it took about a month to do it all.
Look under the link for Winter 04 projects and Suspension pics here:
http://home.comcast.net/~74porsche911/

I'd agree that tires first then sway bars is the normal progression for AutoX but I think they all assume your bushings are okay. In my 74 I didn't find a single rubber bushing that looked right and the front ones were so bad the T-bars were rubbing. So for a 30 year old car I'd but bushings in-front of swaybars if you have something already on front/rear.

Pat

borowiec

Pat:

Wow, that's a beautiful car - and quite a project! I'm afraid I have neither the time nor the expertise to undertake anything as thorough as you did. I bought my 75 911S in 1996 ($9000, 67,000 miles) and it's been virtually trouble-free, once I had 2nd and 3rd gear synchros replaced and some other transmission parts. This summer I'm working on cosmetic or minor things that I've ignored long enough that they started to bug me. I now finally have a working blower fan and windshield washers and will be repairing some of the interior trim, replacing the fabric on the rear window/door weatherstripping, etc.

The bushings are in good shape, rears were just replaced this spring - nothing fancy, just stock rubber.

Next year I plan to upgrade torsion bars, shocks, sway bars, tie rods - I'm beginning to understand that it's best to do all those things at the same time, rather than piecemeal. At the moment, I'm just trying to figure out if there is anything I can do right now, relatively cheaply, that will help my autocross times. Since it's a Targa and prone to flex, I thought a strut brace might make a noticeable difference, but opinions are very divided on that score, based on what I've read on this site and Pelican. Still, for under $200, I might go for one.

Andrew

Pat S

Thanks and good luck to you.
As a side note I learned how to do all this as I went. Pelican has some very good step by step info on the right and wrong ways to do these upgrades yourself.

Pat