Doghouse

Greetings, I am new to the forum and have come to learn more about G-Models and 964s. I follow a few 911 folks on social media (one has a few American muscle cars as well as 911s) and I am always intrigued but the difference in ownership experience.

To be completely honest, there are exactly two cars I have wanted since I was a teenager - one is C2 "Stingray" Corvette (1963-1967 era) and the other is a late-80s to 964 era Porsche 911. I used to favor the 964's looks as being perfection but there is something of late that makes me more attracted to the B-Models (perhaps that they are a little more analog/fundamental and forgo some of the complexities that came in the 90s).

Anyways - I am often torn with which car I would buy first when I reach my financial goals given say a $50K budget with some obvious room for maintenance and repairs. I know a C2 Corvette (and many 60's era muscle cars) are fairly easy and inexpensive to either work on or get work done to. Loads of aftermarket and available parts. The C2 sure is a head turner but I have driven many of the cars I discuss and I know American muscle only drives well in a straight line . A G-Model 911 seems like it would be a much greater driving experience and still captures a car in a timeless form (perhaps the only comparable attribute of a C2 Corvette and G-Model 911). I fear the 911 would be much more complex to work on (to the point I would be hiring out everything) and that there is a risk for much larger and more expensive failures in the car. I do also love the 964 but something about them feels more modern (though its been a while) and I feel like the cost of repair and maintenance would be a bit more than a G-Model.

Anyways...I just wondered if anyone here has real experience owning a Porsche and American Muscle car and cares to compare their experience.

wildcat077

I had two early American muscle cars growing up, one was a 1969 Mustang Mach1 with a 351 Cleveland, with a cam,headers and a four speed , the other noticeable one was a 1970 Mercury Cyclone Spoiler with a 429 Cobra Jet and a four speed tranny.
Both were fun but only in a straight line , while my 89 911 is a raw car with no power steering it is certainly more fun to drive.I tracked it extensively with PCA for 7-8 years before buying a dedicated race car and as much as i would like to afford another Mustang for weekend cruises
i have to admit the 911 is better for all around ownership.

Cheers
Phil

ErrorMargin

I've always loved american muscle cars, and I've done a rebuild on a late 60s 327 engine which is what I think (?) many C2 Corvettes had. A friend of mine in high school had a black 63 split window Corvette that was the coolest thing ever!

I currently own an 84 911 Targa.

An engine rebuild on the C2 will be easier to do yourself, otherwise I don't think that a 911G is any more difficult to work on that a C2. A late 80s 911 is fuel injected with a basic computer system, it is reliable and works quite well. And there is plenty of help here on this forum and others for troubleshooting when needed.

Parts availability is generally not a problem for the 911, and they are mostly reasonably priced. A full engine rebuild on a 911 would be more expensive than a C2, but again not by a huge amount.

As for daily drive ability, the 911 is a much better car. Smoother ride, much better handling in the corners, better braking....better everything.

I drive my 911 at least a few times a week and I don't think twice about leaving it in parking lots or taking it on a long trip. They are both great cars, but if I had a C2 I don't think I would drive it as much as I do my 911.

https://rennlist.com/forums/concours...t-results.html

goatfarmer1970

I have a 70 GTO convertible with a 4-speed (that I have had for 28 years), and I absolutely love that car, but the 911 feels so insanely small and nimble compared to it. Very different. I suspect that you could use a classic 911 more often (unless you need an adult-sized backseat and a trunk often)...and while an air-cooled 911 costs more to maintain and insure, they seem to hold their value a little bit better. Bottom line: I support both -- the muscle car will almost certainly feel faster off the line, but there is absolutely no way it could hang in the twisties...and the sound and smell of a G-body car is so right...so I give it the edge.

AG81

I currently own or have owned 10 midyear Corvettes, 6 Pontiac GT0's and Firebirds. Early Mustangs and Camaros. I have also owned a large number of hot rod styled cars.
Unless a great deal of money is spent modernizing these early, classic American cars they always seem to look better than they actually drive. None of them have the road
abilities of a long hood and certainly none of them have the sophistication of a late G body or 964. I just found myself after a long number of years back driving a air cooled
911. I have several cars that are started and not driven anymore. I just don't enjoy them. The camaraderie in the Porsche world is also quite special.

goatfarmer1970

One other thought: the air cooled 911 market now seems pretty receptive to personalization, meaning you can add an exhaust, shifter, LED headlights, steering wheel, tartan fabric seat insets, or whatever you want without making your car less valuable / you may even get your "upgrade" investment back, as hot rod builds now seem to be totally ok. On the other hand, I worry that the muscle car market still demands originality (which means not so drivable and no fun project making it what you dreamed of as a kid) in order to get the best value (excluding certain BAT restomod-build outliers where guys get crazy money for a Frankenride). And it is fun to make the car how you like it (without getting crushed financially), so that may be another thing to potentially consider.

Tinkerer

I had a ‘67 stingray vert back in the eighties and it had no power steering or brakes but they were disc all around (like my 84 Carrera) with a 327 and I thought it handled pretty damn good and with the side exhaust it sounded great. A few years ago I sold my ‘70 Chevelle SS which was all original and a pleasure hearing that big block run. It had factory air which was way better than my P car and was a nice cruiser but did not handle like my carrera or C2. I tend to turn cars every couple of years but there’s something about my Carrera that I just can’t seem to part with. BTW insurance on my Chevelle valued at $75k was 1/2 the cost of my Carrera.

Doghouse

Amazing insight folks, lots of interesting things to consider here. My father had a 65 Pontiac Lemans (basically a 327/small block GTO) and a 68 Nova (drag conversion) growing up when I reached driving age. In the 90s I loved driving the lemans for the sound and being seen but I remember that sloppy steering and doing a leg press on the brakes to stop. The car was huge, I have not been in a C2 vette in 20 years (father also owned one of these before I was of driving age) but I know its a lot smaller (like a 911) but obviously way less refined. I live in Indianapolis and I know there is a respectable 911 shop (Farmer’s Automotive and a couple others) so I at least know there is a support system. In some ways I am nostalgic of American muscle cars because of my dad but growing up I was always more infatuated with more refined sports cars (my father watched NRA and I watched F1). A 911 seems like an infinitely more practical/useful vehicle to live with. I view the 3.0/3.2 era 911s sort of the turning point from classic to modern and sort of the eternal form of a 911.

Vane

My friend had a Porsche 944 and it was rear ended one day and the insurance company bought it. He bought a GM Camaro to replace the 944.
Told me that he drove home with the Camaro and took the freeway ramp as he had done with the 944 and said it was really close he didn’t
loose it. Then he realized how good the 944 was.

On the other hand an American muscle car is much easier and cheaper to upkeep, “anybody” can slam together a Chevy small block, but to
rebuild a 911 engine need some skill (or at least good understanding and following of instructions). A blueprinted small block is an other story.
A Porsche is (was) built with top notch components and the life span is great. I’m not so much convinced about this with the new models.
My humble opinion; if you like brute power combined with phenomenal acceleration & tyre smoke = American, but if you like to drive twisty
roads and feel the precise handling of the car, executing your minor input and in a way come “alive” when you increase the speed, then 911.

But keep in mind that the 911 can be more costly to own, if you can upkeep it by yourself, then take it just as a part of the 911 experience.
Personally I find it extremely relaxing to tinker with the 911, when I was still working, now retired, it was so relaxing just to do some work on
the car and forget all the stress that was part of my work. If you depend on a garage, it can be expensive. Remember that fat is the enemy!
A G 911 start to be a bit fat, sunroof, A/C, power seat and other unnecessary items that just add weight, but are nice to have. When I bought
mine around 1996 I followed the rule: buy the newest you can afford, but later was thinking, buy an old and shovel in a 3.2 or or a 3.6.
Now I’m old and even slower, so the ’85 3.2 suit me well. (Don’t tell my ´85, but the 356 is a different story…)

Tough decision, but either way, you probably won’t regret.

TheTorch

The only time I envy the muscle car crowd is when I look at replacement parts. They seem to be insanely cheap and plentiful.

Try buying a dozen engine through-bolts. Bolts: $60. Acorn nuts: $20. Washers (24 needed): $3.50. Each.
Quality aftermarket rod bolts? $300 a set.
Quality aftermarket head studs: $729 a set.
Some crappy little cardboard or plastic plug you can't get anywhere else but probably costs 10 cents to make? $5-$30.

It's called the Porsche tax for a reason.

Ironman88

One of the things that I like the most about the G-body 911 is the size of the car and the feeling that you get because of that when you drive it. I remember when I first acquired my '87 Targa and the feeling seated inside of it as compared with my previous 911 ('09 C2S) - just an incredible sense of amazement at how much smaller the car felt.

The size of that car turned out to be a key integral factor in creating for me an incomparable sense of connectedness with the car when driving it. You can feel everything that is going on with it - not just how it connects and interacts with the road, but also the functions and workings of the machine itself. There is nothing else that I've experienced like that with any other car that I've ever had.

Then there's the dynamic associated with having the engine behind you (and I mean virtually immediately behind you.) The proximity of the rear wheels from where you're seated in the car. How that telegraphs exactly what is going on when you're driving.

There is nothing like a 911.

Tinkerer

You may want to check costs of an original matching muscle car distributor, carburetor, ac, rims etc. After market parts will not make concourse and cost difference is far from cheap.

AG81

^

So true...... 90% of the muscle cars are hot rods/street rods and 10% are concourse cars. Yes a properly date coded fan or horn is expensive. But to the average guy those parts are to be had at pennies on the dollar.

Dr. 914

I have both a c2 and 88 911. NO COMPARISON. The c2 is good for display and nostalgia, the 911 is for driving and great handling, fit and finish if far superior. Maintenance is cheaper on the 911 because the car is much newer and the car will not break like the c2!!!

Doghouse

Good lord, that is quality info right from the source there! That Stingray is beautiful - I have wanted one since high school (where I actually I worked in a Corvette museum) but its mostly the nostalgia and looks that draw me in...I think I would be much happier at this phase of my life with a SC or 3.2 911 (my other dream car besides the C2). I always just thought an old Corvette/muscle car would be easier and cheaper to maintain and while I finally am at the point in life where I have enough available and free cash for such a venture something about Porsche always scared me (some catastrophic engine issue that is going to cost me $25K but I guess that is just part of playing the game). I do appreciate your note about the cost and reliability experiences favoring the 911. The other thing about C2's in particular is with 20 extra years of age and a fiberglass body they can look amazing but be a complete mess underneath. I am sure the same is true some 911 but being 2 decades newer and purchased as luxury item I would think your average SC/3.2 has lived an easier life.