cale

I have lurked around here in various forums for probably a good 3 years or so. I am finally going to be finishing grad school soon and I am looking at a 72 or 73 911. I know there are various and sundry reasons for getting something later (an SC for example), but until the 993, the 72 - 73s are the only ones that really seem to speak to me. after all, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I was wondering if anyone has had any dealings with Wayne at Born2BFast. I have been trading e-mails with him about a red 72 T he has and was wondering if anyone has dealt with him before. I ask primarily because I am on the east coast and the car (and presumably his shop) is located out in San Francisco.

So in short I guess I am asking for any tips, advice, precautions, encouragement, or anything else anyone has.

Thanks for any thing anyone has to say.


Jeff

GrantG

Jeff - I love the early cars too. You just need to be even more vigilant than usual with the purchase process. Make sure you do one or two independent inspections of the car (one for body and one for mechanical is sometimes helpful) by folks who have alot of experience with the early cars. I'm not familiar with Wayne, so I can't help with that part of your question.

Good luck!

Ron Minson

Jeff,

I hope that it works out for you. If you have been reading the boards for 3 years you should be aware of the main issues.
1. Have a trusted shop give the car a full inspection. Read the thread by IMcarthur called “A PPI Saga” and this should convince you to get the PPI done and to spend the money to have a full inspection.
2. Be prepared to walk away from the deal if the any thing seams out of line.
3. Don’t be blinded by the desire to own the car if it is not the right one. (this is easer said than done, I did not listen to my own advice here)
4. There are several good books on buying a used 911. Read them and apply most of they test they advise on your inspection of the vehicle. Now that you finishing grad school you will have some time for some fun reading. The outcome of your test will dictate if you take it to the next step and bring it to the shop.
5. Done worry to much about the year if you know what the issues are associated with that year and have them checked out. I know what you mean by the car speaks to you.
6. Have a budget and funds available to maintain the car after the purchase.

Good luck on your search. Some will say that the search can be the fun part of getting the car. But owning a strong running, good looking car and driving the snot out of it is the real fun.

Also Congrats on finishing grad school.

Ron

SandyI

Check out the posts regarding Born2BFast on the Pelican Parts and Early 911S registry sites. To be kind-- There are shops with better reputations. It's CRITICAL you have any early 911 for sale at Born2BFast THOROUGHLY examined by another reputable Porsche shop in the Bay area.

cale

Sandy and others:

I really appreciate the heads up re: Born2BFast. If I were to move ahead on this car I was always planning on getting a PPI done by an independant mechanic...now I will just reinforce the necessity of thoroughly checking out every assertion made by Wayne. And then re-checked.

I am enjoying the search, but it is a little frustrating simply due to the low number of cars out there. I am using the enthusiastcars.com, cctol.com, the early S registry classifieds, and the classifieds here. Can anyone reccomend any other good classifieds for the early ones? I have seen the posts listing all of the classified venues...I need something a bit more directed, I don't think most dealers are going to be getting a 72 911 on trade in.

Thanks again for all of the help guys (and gals). I am sure I will post again as things move forward. Even with the reports about B2BF I am going to have a friend in San Fran. check out the car. I guess I am just too willing to give someone another shot.


Jeff

SandyI

Jeff-
Check both the Pelican Parts and Early 911S registry sites for a thread on locating used early 911s for sale. There was a guy who listed about 50 websites!
Good luck and take your time. I took me 8 months to find my car.

Ron Minson

jeff,

Make sure you let us know (and see pics) of what you got.


Ron

ebsalem

you really want a '72, only 4-door 911 ever sold, all 12,500 of 'em.

not that I'm biased.

JCP911S

Cale... congrats also...Grad school is a PIA. Early cars are wonderful, but age and rust are a major factor as everyone will tell you.... some advice... don't marry the first girl you fall in love with and don't buy the first Porsche you see.... (unless its the right one... in which case ignore the above...)

Seriously, there are beautiful cars out there at reasonable prices... $12K should buy you a really nice T driver that will knock the eyes out of 99% of people.

But be patient.... I know its hard... go buy yourself an RX-7 for a couple of grand and drive the s**t out of it if necessary.... Bay area should be crawling with nice cars.... just be dilligent and you will be happy.

Also, don't limit yourself to 72-73 cars... 70-71 are fine ... the 901 gearbox actually shifts nicer than the 915 IMHO.... 1st gear off the "H" is a bit annoying, but if you consider that this is a "classic" race shift pattern, you can overcome the inconvenience buy pretending you are in the Targa Florio....

Also these cars have the "push" clutch.... I had mucho problems with it until we figured out that the threads on the pivot bolt were worn... a new pivot bolt and voila.... perfect.

Carburetor can be and issue on the Ts... no experience, but check it out... my experience is the MFI, if set up properly is excellent... so if you can find a nice E, and the MFI is ok... don;t be afraid of it...

Finally, the 2.4 engine on paper seems better, but I did a 2.4 conversion, and in my experience, the short-stroke 2.2 actually revved easier... so even though max power might be lower, it felt peppier... at least in my S

Don't be put off by the model year issues you read about.... most cars you would want to buy have been through alot of maintenance and alot of these are probably corrected by now.... so buy on total condition of the car.... a good 70 will always be better than a so-so 72.

These are great cars and one of the few classic that... in good mechanical condition...can be used as an everyday driver... on sunny days... have fun and good luck

cale

JCP911S:

Thanks for the comments on the different model years. I have actually read a fair amount about them, with the general recommendation being for the 72-73 based on original equipment / manufacturing. You raise a very good point that by this stage in their lives, few of these cars are close to their original condition, so there is no sense in not expanding my search.

I am very interested in the differences (longevity, ease of use) between the 915 and the 901 boxes. When was the switch made?

As for being in a rush, I'm not. I have a nissan altima as my daily driver, and it is perfectly capable of continuing on in that role for a few years, as it will do even after I get the Porsche.

Again, I really appreciate everyone's help here.

A crazy (and I fully recognize that what I am about to say is crazy) idea occurred to me in the shower today. I really like the yellow (signal yellow?) cars. I saw some hi quality pictures of one a while back when just casually searching. I was also thinking it would be lots of fun to have one of the 3.2 engines in the light early frames. I am sure by now you can see where I am going. I know there are large cost and time downsides to buying a car that might need some help. At the same time I can't help but think that if I find a car that is in reasonable shape and just in need of a thorough strip and repaint (with all steps taken to combat rust wherever it is found), that it would be a great opportunity for me to build myself something that I will really get a kick out of.

I know the purists probably abhor the idea of putting a different engine in, but I am building this for me, as my toy (and reward for finishing school with no loans due to fellowships).

I know some here have done such things before and I was wondering if someone could help me find the appropriate threads to read through to get myself up to speed.


Sorry for the length, I just get excited thinking about the possibilities. Thanks again for everyone's help and opinions.


Jeff

r911

For outlaw type cars, you will want to pay attention to the R Gruppe and read back issues of Excellence. Be sure to buy a copy of Bruce Anderson's book and read it carefully.

The 901 was used until 1969. The 1970-71 cars had a beefier version with the same shift pattern called the 911 (sometimes called 901 too). In 1972 the even beefier 915 was introduced. But it had a less fun shift pattern.

I would buy a West coast car if possible -- they have a lot less rust. And rust will be the major determinant of your buying decision.

What field is your degree in? I hope grad. school was fun -- academia is often downhill from there.

cale

R Gruppe?

I am getting my masters in international finance...no academia for me.

I am definitely centering my search on the relatively less rusty states, but then there is the difficulty of inspecting a car that is 3000 miles away.

The search continues.


Jeff

Doug&Julie

http://www.rgruppe.org/

http://www.early911sregistry.org/

http://www.911t.org/

also try

http://www.collectorcartraderonline.com/

JCP911S

International Finance!... you'll be driving a 2.7 RS pretty soon....

Anyway, the 901 (911...thanks for theclarificaton).... tends to be more expensive to rebild... some expensive low production bearings... also torque capacity is pushing it with a hot engine.... such as 3.2

Also 3.2 conversion requires alot of new parts.... oil tank.. oil lines.... re-wire the electircs for the FI brain.... new tach...etc, etc.. budget at least $10k

r911

- are you sure you need to replace the oil tank when moving to a 3.2L?

The cost will be considerable - but he can use carbs if his emissions requirements are not stringent. Basically, I think your state of residence may determine what mods you can or should do.