RSAmerica1

Hello listers,

I've recently sold my '79 SC, and I have been looking for a nice low-mileage late '80's Carrera for a few months now, and have (for the time being) narrowed it down to two cars. Here are their run-downs:

1986 Coupe
Silver/Black
58,000 miles
Approx. 3 owners
Possible complete repaint, but if so, an excellent job
Factory Carrera spoilers (not originally on car)
PPI indicated it needs 60K service (already known) and possible a/c compressor
Records from 0-8000 miles, then none until 48,000.
Overall very good - excellent condition
Approx. Selling price ($20-$22K)

1987 Coupe
Black / Black
66,000 miles
Original paint in exc. condition
Original factory spoilers
Stock except for stereo
No records, but history known indicates approx. 6 owners (sold twice by Buxton)
Wheels redone very nicely, almost too perfect
Will probably need 60 or 75K service
Approx. selling price ($24-$25K)

My main questions/concerns are:

- If the '86 was repainted, what does that do to its value / future resale?
- Should the lack of records/ownership history for either car should be concern?

Both cars seem to run very well, but my feeling is that there are probably plenty of cars out there with complete records and fewer owners.
Am I worrying too much about this, or should I keep looking?

Right now I'm leaning towards the '86, but just wanted to throw this out on the list to see if anyone has any opinions.

Thanks,
P.C.

993chaz

Door #2 with original paint, or keep looking!
The records would bother me.

993chaz

If the re-paint on the 86 was documented and photographed it shouldn't be an issue. (to some). Again the lack of records would be my concern.

Sorry for the additional post, I mis-read the original.

Chris Picklo

Wow, I can't believe how expensive they are becoming!

I'd go for one with more records. I couldn't imagine paying more than $20k for a nice example with records.

Doug&Julie

Repaint usually de-values a car about 10% over perfect original, depending on the quality of paint job. A well cared for late '80s 911 SHOULDN'T need to be painted, but I'm seeing more and more that are.

I wouldn't be bothered with a number of owners if the records were there. A thorough (and I mean THOROUGH) PPI will help alleviate concerns about history, but never tell the whole story.

I'm with the others, I think you can find a nice car that will give you many years of fun in the under $20k range. Low mileage doesn't mean everything.

Good luck!

Jay H

Here's my take on records and number of owners:

(Bare with me if you've read this a 1000 times before over the years...)

My 1st 911 was an '86 that I bought in early 1997 with 91k on the clock. One owner, full records from day one (11.5 years of paper!), one mechanic it's whole life, bought and serviced at this same dealership I bought it from. Sounds perfect 'eh?

Well, this one and only owner drove the car year round in my area including snow and salt. He stored the car in his horse barn. He must have hit a lot of stuff because each and every lower valanced was damaged and bent. The car was starting to rust (nice paint bubbles) in several places. The paint was very neglected, including a severe door ding. He must have followed every dump truck in the area since the front valance was worn down to primer in many places from stone chips. The front bumper was a stone chip war zone. All the front lights had either holes in them or were cracked from stone chips. Interior was very good though.

The entire rear end of the car was repainted for some unknown reason (the "full" records didn't reveal that).

Mechanically, the car needed a full 15k service when I bought it, needed new shocks, misc trim, needed all new suspension bushings, had heater fan problems, needed tires, I put in a new clutch at 110k, blah, blah, blah... The 'full' records were there, but that didn't mean the previous owner did all the maintenance he should have.

Anyway, to make a long story short, the car was the best example I could have bought with the money I had to spend, I don't regret a minute of that car and I went in with my eyes wide open (and a big budget for repairs). But the one owner and full records didn't help the fact that I spent another $5000 over the next 4 years getting this car up to my standards. AND, I still was left with a car that had an average exterior condition due to the first owner's abuse. It would have needed a full repaint and new lower valances to really look exceptional.

So, a cars current condition means more to me than how many owners it has and how many records are there in the folder. Yes, a full history is helpful, but a lack of history is not a deal breaker, nor should a full history guarantee that you are getting a solid car. I'd rather have 40 carefull previous owners on a car I was considering buying than having just one owner like the first owner of my first 911.

My take on the two cars above if they are in identical mechanical condition (which probably isn't the case after all is said and done): I'd advise taking the original paint '87 if you can stretch the extra cash. The G50 cars always hold their resale value a bit better and are easier to resell due to the popularity of that transmission. That being said, I'd take the '86 if it was in better overall condition and the repaint was top notch (and I have a soft spot for '86 911's...).

The three most important things on these old cars is condition, condition and condition.

Just my $.02 (which ain't worth much).

Jay
90 964

CrossT

Looking at the years only, I'd choose a G50 car over a 915. Though a challenge, the 915 isn't so bad, but was clearly improved upon by the G50 [not universally agreed though]. Performance wise, the cars are machs nix, slightly more hp in 87 and slightly more weight. If AC is a concern it was 86 when the vents were enlarged, so they are the same there. The prices seem a bit high overall.

todd
86 Coupe

delhi

it's all a crap shoot.

RSAmerica1

Thanks so far for all the comments. One new question I have is when looking at the values in Excellence, what actually constitutes an "Excellent" car and how realistic do you think the prices listed are? For instance, an excellent 1987 Carrera coupe is listed at $23,550 and they usually adjust up 10% for low (<70,000?) mileage. According to this guide, the '87 coupe with 66K and original paint for $24K should be on target, or am I missing something.....

P

krichard

Man these prices are out of control. I bought my '88 last August with 71k miles for 15,900.00. The only thing it "needed" was an AC charge. Hell I may be temped to sell at these prices.

Anyway go for the g50 trans you won't be sorry.

RSAmerica1

Kerry,

Out of curiosity, was your car listed around that selling price? or did you negotiate it down due to the a/c, etc.? The car's that I am looking at were originally asking $25K for the '86 and $26,900 for the '87 which are really ridiculous, especially for private sellers and limited history/records. Everyone seems to think these cars are going up in value which I have a hard time believing knowing how many were made and how many are stilla around (and for sale!).

Thanks.

88911coupe

I agree w/ some prev. posters. These seem high in light of sketchy documentation. I'd considered selling my '88 coupe about a year ago and would have loved to get anything near those prices, of course I have a LOT more miles but pretty good documentation on maintenance. Maybe I should sell this spring when it the market allegedly improves for Porsches.
In answer to your question I personally prefer the G50 over the 915's I've driven.

qbvu911

The price is about right for New England!

Jay H

It's been posted in the past quite a few times that the east coast has the highest prices for 911's right now. P.C. might have to pay those prices if he does not want to get a car out of his area.

Prices seem to drop as you move west and south in the country...

Alan G.

keep looking. there are better cars out there for that money, and equivalent cars for quite a bit less.