Lorenfb

Autothority has been is business over 15 years and is as capable & knowledgeable
about chips as anyone and more so. If there were "secrets" to programming DME
chips they know them and have tried them.

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

EC83SC

Why the animosity? Steve posted an excellent article, why do you call it B.S? He has many satisfied customers. I am not currently a customer of his, but I have to ask: are you a competitor? If you are I don't think you are going to wrest any business away from him with your current approach.

Lorenfb

Excellent in what way? A lot of info was presented which failed to address the
issue; "What's the REAL basis for the "so called" performance gains and what
besides "feelings" supports the claims being made? My thread presented facts
and not hyperbole and ridiculous methods for optimizing performance chips.

I suggest you and others obtain some technical books on performance tuning
and don't accept unsupported presentations at face value without objective
data. If you find outside reading difficult, then watch the Speed Channel when
they discuss performance tuning.

Check out my web site (www.systemsc.com) on the Technical, Graphs, and
Problems pages for some additional info about what I'm trying to convey.
I really hate to see many of the uninformed get caught up in the chip hype
which initially occurred in the late '80s and early '90. Most Porsche people
who have been in the business over 10 years have little regard for chips
and really don't waste their customers money on them.

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

Diamond Blue

Loren

Steve's post must have been to hard for you to understand. Maybe you need to read the post again. I had no problem understanding how he has optimized his product. He tests it in REAL world conditions with real time data. I don't take my car to the dyno to drive it. I have to drive in stop and go traffic just like everyone else. When i can open it up i do just that. I keep my car in the best shape that i can and run the necessary octane fuel. My car has had an Autothority chip in it for more than the last 12 years. It runs great. If the chips were the doom and gloom that you keep harping on, my engine should have died long ago. Its great when you post useful information and i have read this with great interest. You can't seem to deal with the fact that here are others that are enhancing the experience with our cars. I am fully aware of what i am doing and the consequences that are possible when i installed my new chip. If Porsche thought that changing the spring tension on the afm would have helped they would have changed that and not "left that on the table". No product, no matter what, gets great reviews or continues to sell for long without being able to provide a benefit for the user. Basic sales training will tell you that. Chips in general have been selling for 15 years as you stated with Autothority and still are. They are more refined due to what all the companys have done with their products. You know what your talking about but that is for the most part negated by the nasty posts such as this "What's really been said?????? More B.S." and many more negative posts that most of us have seen in other threads. Porsche continued to refine their chips through the 80's and no one believes that there are any hidden secrets to programming a chip but Steve is refining and making the driving experience even better then it already is. Stop attacking others and provide the knowledge that you have to contribute to this board. We are all able to make decisions based upon what info we have in front of us and be able to enjoy or suffer the consequences.

Analog Theory

What a heavy burden it must be for you to be smarter than everyone else. Whatever it is you're selling, I for one am not buying. In fact, why have this forum at all when we could all just ask you for the correct and only answer. If you're trying to drive traffic to your website might I suggest a less abrasive tact. Internet marketing for dummies is a good start. Or, if you are adverse to "new concepts" then I suggest watching Dr. Phil.

Be Safe
WC996

Dave Thomas

Steve's thread DOES address this issue! He clearly explains the steps he went through to decide what modifications to make, and there is nothing ridiculous about his method. To quote you, "What, you can't read?" And Steve's thread presents facts, not in charts and graphs but in a narative fashion. And the real-world experience of MANY happy customers supports his claims. Are you suggesting that hundreds of guys have independently used the chips and every one of them is independently having the same halucination?

Thanks for the insult, a$$wipe. Loren, I've built dozens of high-performance engines, starting with Honda 4-cylinder 500CC motorcycle engines, some of which propelled me to be an AMA Roadracing National Finalist 3 years in a row. I've built dozens of highly modified small-bore british engines for SCCA solo and production racing, and 500cc Kawasaki 2-strokes for SCCA Formula 440 racing. I was reading the books you suggest 15 years before you started your business. You're not dealing with a bunch of rummies here, so lay off the "superior intellect" approach.

So I suppose this would include one of your dealers for your rebuilt DME units, Pelican Parts, who is also now carrying Steve's chips? Explain that one.

BTW, I did check your website, and found a bunch of very simple, and almost totally useless graphs. It appears that you are in the business of rebuilding DMEs to stock specs and you're not in the performance business. If in the future I am looking for the ordinary, I will give you a call.

And, with that, I am through with Lord Loren. I can't believe how much time and energy I've wasted with this.

sschmerg

Come on now, let's cut the negativity here. Bashing Loren (and his obviously strong feelings on the chip issue) is not going to make your car any faster!

Many of you have purchased performance chips for your 911 (or bought a car that had one already installed), so you are about as biased as anybody on here. Not that I am accusing anybody here, but people don't want to hear that they may have wasted their money. They will defend the purchase they have already made, regardless of whether or not it actually improves anything.

I don't claim to be an expert on Motronics or performance tuning, but in my personal experience Loren is pretty much right. A chip may improve the subjective "feel" of the throttle response in the 3.2, but it does not make them much quicker if everything else is left stock. Even assuming the chip provides an extra 5hp, what is that good for really? Is that going to make the car much faster around the track or on the street?

Hey, it's your car, and you should do what you want with it. If you like the way it feels with the chip, great, enjoy it. If you don't already have one, don't worry about it, because they are certainly not the be-all, end-all in performance tuning. If you are thinking about buying one, just be aware that a chip alone won't do very much for your overall performance. Like anything else, you must balance the cost and benefits (or detriments) of it.

I think it's great to have two opposing views expressed so one can make a more informed decision. There's no need to get upset about it because you either have a chip, sell chips, or you think they are about as much of a scam as Slick-50 was!

-Sean

Eric-17

Gosh, it's amazing to me the negativity and animosity shown by you Loren. My soon to be fullfilled dream of owning a 911 is one of excitement and a longing for that special quality these automobiles embody... It seems to me you've lost the 'grin' that most owners gush about. Too bad, hope I never get to that point... Meanwhile, I'll be avoiding your posts in the future. Your not teaching me anything and I loathe the thought of your 'tarnsih' clouding my future ownership experience.

Lastly, I just can't imagine that anyone would profess that Porsche did everything perfect (with the 911) and left nothing for the tweakers. Just as the software I use on my PCs at home and equipment at work, they are produced for the masses. This means that some features are unfortunately 'dumbed down' to provide system stability for the average user... And as we all know; the average user does little or no maintenance and yet expects maximum uptime (reliability). I have tweaked Windows XP and my internet browser to the point that my wife no longer recognizes them... Have I gotten more performance than I did out of the box? You bet!!!

Have a good day and please... Smile.

Eric

Lorenfb

Changing code on PC using C++ or using an assembly language to enhance
software is a VERY poor analogy to performance tuning. I've written and
enhanced many PC programs and even written at the machine language level.
When you program a control system which a fuel injection system basically is,
it's much more complex as there are many variables involved not just the
output to a screen/printer or program multi-tasking times.

You just DON'T drive down the street and watch an AFR indicator and then
reprogram a DME chip. To program properly you must data log ALL the variables;
temp, RPM, air flow meter, timing, AFR, & engine load which is the most critical.
You must know all of these to determine where on the three dimensional
fuel & ignition maps you have a problem and where on these maps you
must make changes. Furthermore, you must correlate measured torque,
e.g. from a dyno run, to a variable such the AFM to have an idea of where you
are on the torque curve when maps changes must be made.

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

Lorenfb

Additional Note:

If you really want to develop a DME chip properly, you could use an EPROM emulator
and make changes real-time with a PC interface. This is probably how the OEMs
tweak the final fuel and ignition maps.

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

KC911

OK Loren, I'm going to call 'BULL $HIT' on this one...I don't believe for a second that you've written in machine language (i.e. which would be just strings of '1's and '0's that the instruction set of a particular processor would understand). BTW, I 'have' written in machine language, but only in getting my computer science degree MANY years ago, and that was only to emphasize HOW the processors actually work. My first job out of college was with IBM's Advanced Communications Products Division working in the microcode development group for network controllers, so I do have some 'real world' experience with eproms (chips), etc. in general. You may have written in a low level 'closer to the processor' type language, but only an idiot (and you're certainly NOT one of those) would "brag about/admit to" writing in machine language to accomplish a specific task. IMO, you're attempting to cloud the issue here... there's two parts to this... determining 'which' values you want the processor to read (the harder part), and 'how' to get those values into machine language ('1's & '0's). Now you may have a legitimate beef with 'which' values SW has determined he wanted to program, but having an issue with which 'tool' he used to program those values is downright silly...whether its C++ (which is compiled), an assembly language (which is assembled) or an 'interpretive language' (interpreted on the fly) , or a machine language ('1's & '0'), the net result is identical...i.e. THE SAME string of '1's & '0's when all is said and done. So, what is your point in bringing that up? It's Friday afternoon, I'm bored, and just 'looking for an internet argument' ... sound like anyone you know?

Keith Craver

ked

I'm having trouble distinguishing chips in 911s from chips on shoulders.

KC911

That's an easy one...I have 'one type', and Loren has 'the other'

Just kidding Loren!

Steve W

Some wonderful comments going on here. Perhaps some may have forgotten some of the many dyno runs we performed a while back that accompanies our research and data. Those that read the post would note that laptops are interfaced into the DME and not one eprom was burned throughout the entire process. Now lets all go home, have a beer, and enjoy the weekend!

KC911

Now that's the BEST argument I've heard, and I concur! Since I'm 3 hrs ahead of you guys (ya'll DO work on Friday afternoons don't you), I'm going to get a head start...have a great weekend everyone!