BoxKing

Regardless of PCNA/Dealer reflagging this BaT listing by informing the seller of being placed on the black list… don’t you feel that his preferred dealership (or others) won’t offer him another GT, or other allocations provided his current track record? His present moves have been made, and he should be flagged as a potential “flipper” regardless of the sale of this GT4 RS completing.

Mr. Adair

Correct. Porsche will never tell a dealer what to do ADM wise. And private sellers can ask what they want on BAT. BAT is not required to pull anything down. US price fixing laws are strict and protect the owners of the product. Whether it’s a dealer or a consumer. Speedy is right, the recourse is simply blacklisting that individual from buying again.

MaddMike

Quoted for accuracy. Great analogy. Certain people always get on here yelling about "profit isn't a bad word". While technically true, there are various degrees of ethical and social considerations that should be taken into account. Ticketmaster analysis nails it.

worf928

My point was that, in general, in a society that values free enterprise, once you buy a 'thing' you should be able to sell it. The First Sale doctrine applied to copyright, arguably, enshrines this to some extent. When you buy a book, you own "one copyright" for that book and are free to sell it again without any interference from the copyright holder. (Obviously this has gotten a lot more complicated in the digital age.)

By the same token, the dealer should also be able to refuse sell a product to someone.

So, I think the BaT-er should have been allowed to sell the car and that the dealer should have put him on a no-sale list if they wanted to. Whether or not either approach leads to fewer flippers is a matter of opinion or data collection.

Profit isn't a bad word. We have here, in a microcosm, a lesson in what happens when demand far exceeds supply. The profit will be made one way or the other. In this case do we want the profit to go to PAG? PCNA? The dealer? Or the flipper?

Perhaps we want the government to control prices. 'cause that always works out.

Tough to figure out ways to "make it fair" that don't lead to unintended consequences.

Obviously, we'd just like PAG to make more of them so that supply approaches demand, but that's not going to happen, largely, in my opinion, due to EU (and US) anti-ICE regs.


EDIT: I had to sign no-export agreements for the last two new Porsches we bought. Perhaps a legally-binding right-of-first-refusal document is a means to control the flippers. But, IANAL.

matttheboatman

I agree with the comments that say the end user (or anyone) should be allowed to sell thier car for whatever price it fetches in a free, and open market place. Period. BAT has proven to be one of the most open and transparent marketplaces ever conceieved. When you buy something, with no strings attached, you have every right to sell it for whatever the market determines its worth at that moment in time. But, maybe or (perhaps likely) there were strings attached.

850tgul

I think people are misconstruing what happened here. The seller had every right to sell the car for whatever he wanted and Porsche could not stop that. What Porsche said was; if you do, you won’t receive any future allocations. The seller then weighed the pros and cons and decided not to sell. Porsche did not force him or BAT to withdraw, they laid out the consequences if he did follow through and the seller decided to end the auction.

Porsche did not have the right to stop him from selling the car. Porsche does have the right to not offer him any future allocations. Not saying it’s right or wrong but I don’t see any legal nor anti-free market issues at play here.

Knutsm01

Exactly - what is surprising is the seller didn’t expect this to happen. If I wanted to sell mine on BAT within the first 12 months of ownership I would fully expect to never get another Porsche allocation again. Might make some flippers think twice now.

Yc911Kid

Might as well go through this list & blacklist all the 1st owners while porsche is at it:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...earch=95476726

usctrojanGT3

Interesting, did you get something in writing from PCNA about the warning?

usctrojanGT3

Porsche doesn't have to tell dealers not to charge ADMs, they can simply withhold GT allocations from dealers who do charge ADMs or spec their own GT cars to sell for big ADMs. I guarantee you that kind of action by PCNA would quickly eliminate dealers charging ADMs and spec'ing their down GT cars. Obviously the chances of that happening is slim to none but one can hope since brands like Rolex and Ferrari have successfully done it with their dealers.

Prime

When you said "Porsche said was;" or "Porsche have the right" do you mean Factory, PCNA or that Porsche Dealership?

My personal 2 cents, when you charge ADM's it's fair game what you do with the car, including selling it on an auction site.
Basically ADM is an auction anyway to see whoever will buy it for that price, there is no loyalty involved, so what loyalty should you owe the brand?

Car for RRP, total different story. That is a loyalty and list situation for both parties.

Odin

Of course anyone should be able to sell their belongings for whatever price he can get, without fear of repercussions from anyone. I suspect this seller won’t get an allocation for any high end Porsche going forward anyway.

PCNA should adopt the European way of doing business and deny the mark-up by dealers.

worf928

So, you applaud the market liquidity and price discovery provided by the flippers? ‘cause that’s what you will get based upon your rules above. You’ll have a small cadre of ‘dealership friends and family’ that get all the allocations and flip the cars for big profits.

TexasPorschelover

Simple - if you sell your GT4RS not back to the dealer you bought it from allowing them to sell it again they will not give you anymore allocations. I get it. These cars are super limited and they have the power to sell who they want too. They can track who’s ever VIN. Now having said that if they charged ADM then it is my feeling that they really are double dipping. Reasonable expectation for a list price sale though.

usctrojanGT3

Looks like there's a British Racing Green Touring on BAT that was purchased from North Houston so it's safe to say that flipper will be shut out of ever buying a GT car at MSRP from North Houston.