GT4RS - Track Setup
08-03-2024, 12:29 PM
#1201
Three Wheelin'
Also you don't need to spend 70-80K to improve your car. ST rotors are cool but $14-15K. MR is OEM but @ $55K, not much value for me.
A set of the new Essex rotors with their S vanes can cool down the front rotors by about 150 degrees and still take 7 pounds off the rear axle for about $1500 more than discounted OEMs on your next replacement. Front aero from SSR and a clubsport type rear wing from SR can be had for about $7000. And finally a DSC Sport box for $1400. So for about $10K you can get better lighter brakes, near MR levels of aero, and some improved dampening characteristics with much better rebound control. Shoot, then why not get a Kline exhaust for $6k (only $5k on Black Friday) and add 15-20 hp and tq, let the engine run cooler, and of course sound amazing as compared to the OEM setup.
These types of upgrades will get you most of the way there for a fraction of the price. Add the extra hp and tq from the exhaust and keep the motor from cutting power when it gets hot, and you would probably be faster than with the expensive mods. This is more the pathway that I will be following along with all the other suspension and tire/wheel upgrades that are in progress.
The ST rotor upgrade on its own can be appealing for the "8-9" level type level drivers because it drops 47 pounds of unsprung weight from the car. Almost 12 pounds per corner. That is huge. Better compression and rebound control of the lighter wheel assembly. Wouldn't we all like that. Better acceleration from less inertia to get things moving or slowed down more quickly. There are various conversions of unsprung to sprung weight advantages, but even at a lower ratio of 1:3, that makes the 47 pounds feel like dropping 141 pounds off the car in general. Again better acceleration, braking, and handling. A lot of money but lots of people have dropped a lot of coin on the WP's carbon fiber and that is only for looks. Then the Mag rims cost about the same as the ST rotors and of course do lower the weight of the car by about 20 pounds which is nice.
A set of the new Essex rotors with their S vanes can cool down the front rotors by about 150 degrees and still take 7 pounds off the rear axle for about $1500 more than discounted OEMs on your next replacement. Front aero from SSR and a clubsport type rear wing from SR can be had for about $7000. And finally a DSC Sport box for $1400. So for about $10K you can get better lighter brakes, near MR levels of aero, and some improved dampening characteristics with much better rebound control. Shoot, then why not get a Kline exhaust for $6k (only $5k on Black Friday) and add 15-20 hp and tq, let the engine run cooler, and of course sound amazing as compared to the OEM setup.
These types of upgrades will get you most of the way there for a fraction of the price. Add the extra hp and tq from the exhaust and keep the motor from cutting power when it gets hot, and you would probably be faster than with the expensive mods. This is more the pathway that I will be following along with all the other suspension and tire/wheel upgrades that are in progress.
The ST rotor upgrade on its own can be appealing for the "8-9" level type level drivers because it drops 47 pounds of unsprung weight from the car. Almost 12 pounds per corner. That is huge. Better compression and rebound control of the lighter wheel assembly. Wouldn't we all like that. Better acceleration from less inertia to get things moving or slowed down more quickly. There are various conversions of unsprung to sprung weight advantages, but even at a lower ratio of 1:3, that makes the 47 pounds feel like dropping 141 pounds off the car in general. Again better acceleration, braking, and handling. A lot of money but lots of people have dropped a lot of coin on the WP's carbon fiber and that is only for looks. Then the Mag rims cost about the same as the ST rotors and of course do lower the weight of the car by about 20 pounds which is nice.
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TDT (08-03-2024)
08-03-2024, 01:36 PM
#1202
Also you don't need to spend 70-80K to improve your car. ST rotors are cool but $14-15K. MR is OEM but @ $55K, not much value for me.
A set of the new Essex rotors with their S vanes can cool down the front rotors by about 150 degrees and still take 7 pounds off the rear axle for about $1500 more than discounted OEMs on your next replacement. Front aero from SSR and a clubsport type rear wing from SR can be had for about $7000. And finally a DSC Sport box for $1400. So for about $10K you can get better lighter brakes, near MR levels of aero, and some improved dampening characteristics with much better rebound control. Shoot, then why not get a Kline exhaust for $6k (only $5k on Black Friday) and add 15-20 hp and tq, let the engine run cooler, and of course sound amazing as compared to the OEM setup.
These types of upgrades will get you most of the way there for a fraction of the price. Add the extra hp and tq from the exhaust and keep the motor from cutting power when it gets hot, and you would probably be faster than with the expensive mods. This is more the pathway that I will be following along with all the other suspension and tire/wheel upgrades that are in progress.
The ST rotor upgrade on its own can be appealing for the "8-9" level type level drivers because it drops 47 pounds of unsprung weight from the car. Almost 12 pounds per corner. That is huge. Better compression and rebound control of the lighter wheel assembly. Wouldn't we all like that. Better acceleration from less inertia to get things moving or slowed down more quickly. There are various conversions of unsprung to sprung weight advantages, but even at a lower ratio of 1:3, that makes the 47 pounds feel like dropping 141 pounds off the car in general. Again better acceleration, braking, and handling. A lot of money but lots of people have dropped a lot of coin on the WP's carbon fiber and that is only for looks. Then the Mag rims cost about the same as the ST rotors and of course do lower the weight of the car by about 20 pounds which is nice.
A set of the new Essex rotors with their S vanes can cool down the front rotors by about 150 degrees and still take 7 pounds off the rear axle for about $1500 more than discounted OEMs on your next replacement. Front aero from SSR and a clubsport type rear wing from SR can be had for about $7000. And finally a DSC Sport box for $1400. So for about $10K you can get better lighter brakes, near MR levels of aero, and some improved dampening characteristics with much better rebound control. Shoot, then why not get a Kline exhaust for $6k (only $5k on Black Friday) and add 15-20 hp and tq, let the engine run cooler, and of course sound amazing as compared to the OEM setup.
These types of upgrades will get you most of the way there for a fraction of the price. Add the extra hp and tq from the exhaust and keep the motor from cutting power when it gets hot, and you would probably be faster than with the expensive mods. This is more the pathway that I will be following along with all the other suspension and tire/wheel upgrades that are in progress.
The ST rotor upgrade on its own can be appealing for the "8-9" level type level drivers because it drops 47 pounds of unsprung weight from the car. Almost 12 pounds per corner. That is huge. Better compression and rebound control of the lighter wheel assembly. Wouldn't we all like that. Better acceleration from less inertia to get things moving or slowed down more quickly. There are various conversions of unsprung to sprung weight advantages, but even at a lower ratio of 1:3, that makes the 47 pounds feel like dropping 141 pounds off the car in general. Again better acceleration, braking, and handling. A lot of money but lots of people have dropped a lot of coin on the WP's carbon fiber and that is only for looks. Then the Mag rims cost about the same as the ST rotors and of course do lower the weight of the car by about 20 pounds which is nice.
Last edited by TDT; 08-03-2024 at 01:48 PM.
08-03-2024, 01:59 PM
#1203
Three Wheelin'
Here is one of them. Lots of good info on this web page.
https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...air-718-gt4-rs
Then there are the rears.
https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...91gt3iron-rear
Some Spiegler brake lines, some RS-29s or DS3.12 pads, and some SRF Fluid and you are definitely a step up from OEM brakes. These upgrades give you more surface area without all the holes in the rotors, better racing grade steel, more cooling vanes, better vane technology, much better pads with copper in them if the manufacturer so choses, better high temp fluid, and no flex in the brake lines.
https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...air-718-gt4-rs
Then there are the rears.
https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...91gt3iron-rear
Some Spiegler brake lines, some RS-29s or DS3.12 pads, and some SRF Fluid and you are definitely a step up from OEM brakes. These upgrades give you more surface area without all the holes in the rotors, better racing grade steel, more cooling vanes, better vane technology, much better pads with copper in them if the manufacturer so choses, better high temp fluid, and no flex in the brake lines.
Last edited by lovetoturn; 08-03-2024 at 02:03 PM.
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TDT (08-03-2024)
08-03-2024, 03:00 PM
#1204
Three Wheelin'
Another nugget. Here is a DSC Sport box video with Tom Chan from TPC Racing. Not a Porsche, but similar for all cars. A lot of active adjustments available with this software box. Shocks and electronic valving are specifically talked about at 29:30 with some discussion of shock velocity adjustments starting at 37:00. The velocity is where we can increase or decrease the compression and rebound compared to the par levels. This is done on the fly electronically depending on the speed of change of the shock position. So if you hit a rumble strip and the shock starts to compress quickly, the DSC can soften that compression as it moves up and then increase the rebound to have a smooth landing.
There is so much to be had here to improve the ride of our cars. Far beyond just clicking a few **** on aftermarket shocks. Yes those are of better quality we all know, but if the malady of Porsche's rebound settings can be mitigated with this electronic solution, does one need to spend over $10k on a set of MCS or other shocks ? ? ? Then there are all of the other active adjustments available for braking, acceleration, velocity, speed, and G-forces. A big hand full of stuff to work on, but I believe they give you a pretty good head start "out of the blocks" with their initial tuning. A little Olympic's pun LOL.
There is so much to be had here to improve the ride of our cars. Far beyond just clicking a few **** on aftermarket shocks. Yes those are of better quality we all know, but if the malady of Porsche's rebound settings can be mitigated with this electronic solution, does one need to spend over $10k on a set of MCS or other shocks ? ? ? Then there are all of the other active adjustments available for braking, acceleration, velocity, speed, and G-forces. A big hand full of stuff to work on, but I believe they give you a pretty good head start "out of the blocks" with their initial tuning. A little Olympic's pun LOL.
Last edited by lovetoturn; 08-03-2024 at 03:10 PM.
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7184RS (08-03-2024)
08-03-2024, 03:27 PM
#1205
My personal view of DSC is that it actually takes away from the natural feeling of the car.
Porsche PASM has evolved alot and incorporated quite a few of the strategies in use in DSC but in a much more subtle way.
DSC obviously just opens the box and allows you as a user to have a play yourself. If you are willing to put the time into learning it, which I did, and I had developed several maps in my use case.
In the end, I found that it had very weird behaviour at the extremes of the table where the car would essentially do individual things on each corner but then this didn't always add up 4 - not very connected like say a hydraulically interconnected system, e.g Mclaren Super Series.
For me it was good for softening off a car for road, but in anger on track, i found it unnatural and not predictable in my experience…
This is where a traditional ‘old-school/dump/passive’ adjustable motorsport damper comes to play. Set it up how you like and it will behave the same way, every time. Natural, predictable, confidence inspiring.
Porsche PASM has evolved alot and incorporated quite a few of the strategies in use in DSC but in a much more subtle way.
DSC obviously just opens the box and allows you as a user to have a play yourself. If you are willing to put the time into learning it, which I did, and I had developed several maps in my use case.
In the end, I found that it had very weird behaviour at the extremes of the table where the car would essentially do individual things on each corner but then this didn't always add up 4 - not very connected like say a hydraulically interconnected system, e.g Mclaren Super Series.
For me it was good for softening off a car for road, but in anger on track, i found it unnatural and not predictable in my experience…
This is where a traditional ‘old-school/dump/passive’ adjustable motorsport damper comes to play. Set it up how you like and it will behave the same way, every time. Natural, predictable, confidence inspiring.
Last edited by TDT; 08-03-2024 at 03:32 PM.
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lovetoturn (08-04-2024)
08-03-2024, 04:12 PM
#1206
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My personal view of DSC is that it actually takes away from the natural feeling of the car.
Porsche PASM has evolved alot and incorporated quite a few of the strategies in use in DSC but in a much more subtle way.
DSC obviously just opens the box and allows you as a user to have a play yourself. If you are willing to put the time into learning it, which I did, and I had developed several maps in my use case.
In the end, I found that it had very weird behaviour at the extremes of the table where the car would essentially do individual things on each corner but then this didn't always add up 4 - not very connected like say a hydraulically interconnected system, e.g Mclaren Super Series.
For me it was good for softening off a car for road, but in anger on track, i found it unnatural and not predictable in my experience…
This is where a traditional ‘old-school/dump/passive’ adjustable motorsport damper comes to play. Set it up how you like and it will behave the same way, every time. Natural, predictable, confidence inspiring.
Porsche PASM has evolved alot and incorporated quite a few of the strategies in use in DSC but in a much more subtle way.
DSC obviously just opens the box and allows you as a user to have a play yourself. If you are willing to put the time into learning it, which I did, and I had developed several maps in my use case.
In the end, I found that it had very weird behaviour at the extremes of the table where the car would essentially do individual things on each corner but then this didn't always add up 4 - not very connected like say a hydraulically interconnected system, e.g Mclaren Super Series.
For me it was good for softening off a car for road, but in anger on track, i found it unnatural and not predictable in my experience…
This is where a traditional ‘old-school/dump/passive’ adjustable motorsport damper comes to play. Set it up how you like and it will behave the same way, every time. Natural, predictable, confidence inspiring.
08-03-2024, 04:33 PM
#1207
I've tried the DSC in a Cayman R and in our 981 GT4, and I too felt that the damping felt unnatural with DSC. The Porsche damping, while not in McLaren league, feels more natural to me. Fortunately, the DSC box costs only as much as two tires and is easy to try, so I'm open to trying it in the 4RS.
Hence why for me, and my experience, I’ll stick with OEM, or jump to a proper passive adjustable 2/3/4-way motorsport damper package.
08-03-2024, 06:54 PM
#1208
Higher caster numbers can work with OEM tires and wheels, but with larger after market tire and wheel combos and camber into the 3s, not so much. They will rub, so the wheel needs to be closer to the center, which is why I say to keep it around 9. Yes you gain some camber on turn in, but we never really turn the wheel that when at speed. Then there is the fact that some despise the feeling of the car when the camber is say 9.5 to 10. So it depends on what you have done to your car as to where you want to land. Porsche put the solid adjustable LCA bushings (caster pucks) on the car for a reason. Make your alignment tech use them if needed to get the caster number where you want. I would not call out a number for caster until you have a reading on where the car has been set from the factory or the last alignment. Adjust from there accordingly, or keep it the same. It is a game day decision.
As mrd says most people kill their tires by overdriving them. Learn to drive on the edge of the grip that you have and don't just grind your tires into the turn. The beginners need to learn to just push the car a little harder, and the intermediates sometimes need to back off a touch to preserve their tires. Look at what George Russel did at Spa.
Jason Hart has told us that the car ultimately needs more front end ... as much as you can get. So bigger front tires, bigger wheels, geo, aero, rake. The front end is the rate limiting step here. Get as much front end as you can and then balance it to the rear. Now this is a paid professional race driver talking, and the actual things that need to be done may be too extreme for most people here. But the general idea is such and does not change for anyone at their respective level. Porsche gave the car a fair amount of understeer from the factory to keep people out of trouble and not let it get too close to the 992 GT3. Again refer to Misha's comments about the car before and after he drove the SSR.
As mrd says most people kill their tires by overdriving them. Learn to drive on the edge of the grip that you have and don't just grind your tires into the turn. The beginners need to learn to just push the car a little harder, and the intermediates sometimes need to back off a touch to preserve their tires. Look at what George Russel did at Spa.
Jason Hart has told us that the car ultimately needs more front end ... as much as you can get. So bigger front tires, bigger wheels, geo, aero, rake. The front end is the rate limiting step here. Get as much front end as you can and then balance it to the rear. Now this is a paid professional race driver talking, and the actual things that need to be done may be too extreme for most people here. But the general idea is such and does not change for anyone at their respective level. Porsche gave the car a fair amount of understeer from the factory to keep people out of trouble and not let it get too close to the 992 GT3. Again refer to Misha's comments about the car before and after he drove the SSR.
This was my experience with higher caster numbers. Obviously I do not track and you all know this, but it's worth stating for those who do not use their car solely as a track car.
Higher caster is fine on a track when yo are wheeling the car and steering wheel around anyways, but off the track it creates a "seesaw" type of feeling in the steering wheel, noticeable especially with freeway driving on uneven road surfaces. You are constantly fighting with the steering wheel and it doesn't feel good, promotes instability from all the unnecessary micro left to right corrections, and gets tiring fast.
Just something to note if one decides to run higher caster numbers and plans to street drive your car.
Last edited by TRZ06; 08-03-2024 at 06:56 PM.
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lovetoturn (08-04-2024)
08-03-2024, 07:01 PM
#1209
My personal view of DSC is that it actually takes away from the natural feeling of the car.
Porsche PASM has evolved alot and incorporated quite a few of the strategies in use in DSC but in a much more subtle way.
DSC obviously just opens the box and allows you as a user to have a play yourself. If you are willing to put the time into learning it, which I did, and I had developed several maps in my use case.
In the end, I found that it had very weird behaviour at the extremes of the table where the car would essentially do individual things on each corner but then this didn't always add up 4 - not very connected like say a hydraulically interconnected system, e.g Mclaren Super Series.
For me it was good for softening off a car for road, but in anger on track, i found it unnatural and not predictable in my experience…
This is where a traditional ‘old-school/dump/passive’ adjustable motorsport damper comes to play. Set it up how you like and it will behave the same way, every time. Natural, predictable, confidence inspiring.
Porsche PASM has evolved alot and incorporated quite a few of the strategies in use in DSC but in a much more subtle way.
DSC obviously just opens the box and allows you as a user to have a play yourself. If you are willing to put the time into learning it, which I did, and I had developed several maps in my use case.
In the end, I found that it had very weird behaviour at the extremes of the table where the car would essentially do individual things on each corner but then this didn't always add up 4 - not very connected like say a hydraulically interconnected system, e.g Mclaren Super Series.
For me it was good for softening off a car for road, but in anger on track, i found it unnatural and not predictable in my experience…
This is where a traditional ‘old-school/dump/passive’ adjustable motorsport damper comes to play. Set it up how you like and it will behave the same way, every time. Natural, predictable, confidence inspiring.
I have never tried DSC, but I have read similar comments from all the forums I have been on with the various cars I have had over the years. Audi S4, Audi TTRS, Corvette, 6th Gen. Camaro, and now Porsche.
The feedback I have read from those who had tried it is almost universal across all those different platforms. DCS is great for smoothing things out, but in most cases also creates some instability and odd behavior with near/at the limit driving and ends up feeling worse in those situations over the stock algorithms.
This was a big reason I chose to bypass DCS and moved directly to MCS.
08-04-2024, 06:04 AM
#1210
This was my experience with higher caster numbers. Obviously I do not track and you all know this, but it's worth stating for those who do not use their car solely as a track car.
Higher caster is fine on a track when yo are wheeling the car and steering wheel around anyways, but off the track it creates a "seesaw" type of feeling in the steering wheel, noticeable especially with freeway driving on uneven road surfaces. You are constantly fighting with the steering wheel and it doesn't feel good, promotes instability from all the unnecessary micro left to right corrections, and gets tiring fast.
Just something to note if one decides to run higher caster numbers and plans to street drive your car.
Higher caster is fine on a track when yo are wheeling the car and steering wheel around anyways, but off the track it creates a "seesaw" type of feeling in the steering wheel, noticeable especially with freeway driving on uneven road surfaces. You are constantly fighting with the steering wheel and it doesn't feel good, promotes instability from all the unnecessary micro left to right corrections, and gets tiring fast.
Just something to note if one decides to run higher caster numbers and plans to street drive your car.
I know on normal gt4 with big cambers it can easy go above 10 ie track guys who don’t change caster pucks but run -3.5. But on the road you cannot use more than about -1.5 anyway so caster is never going to be an issue.
any more than that on the road is just less grip, less braking more inner tyre wear etc etc.
on track more caster than oem is all plus points as long as you stay below 10, I don’t see a reason to stay at 9 ?
08-04-2024, 06:32 AM
#1211
Quote “Porsche put the solid adjustable LCA bushings (caster pucks) on the car for a reason. Make your alignment tech use them if needed to get the caster number where you want”
the issue here is you don’t need to really adjust caster unless you fit rear adjustable toe links which Porsche did not put on the car for what ever reason ! So they gave us caster puck for no reason then as you cannot get the cambers without buying rear toe links, and more so top mounts if you then want to go above -2.7. So it is a bit of a joke to gain caster pucks without Porsche fitting rear adjustable toe link ! Then if you fit rear toe links to get more rear you then need to buy Motor sport top mounts, this is when you then need to adjust caster. Again the RS is a bit of a joke build oem for any proper track use. people say it’s a like a race car, but it's really not. Again then what is the MR kit doing for £54k ? You still don’t get rear toe links, let alone top mounts. The MR 4RS is still slower on the ring than an oem 992 GT3. But yes we have an adjustable caster puck lol.
£20k spend on the 4rs will still not match a 992, unless you then add aero also which is then a £30k spend, and you still have poor brakes at this point, so let’s say £35k spend then to be really competitive. Or just do the list below !
starts to get daft.
1: toe links
2: top mounts.
3: rear top mounts.
4: 2 way coil overs. Ok 3 :-)
5: set of new wheels and tyres.
6: new brake pads , lines and fluid.
7: set of better disks.
8: ok might as well now buy calipers !
9: front aero.
10: now need a new rear wing.
ok.its now getting like a race car, but what’s that lot cost £50k which I guess is less than an MR kit which is very lacking.
the issue here is you don’t need to really adjust caster unless you fit rear adjustable toe links which Porsche did not put on the car for what ever reason ! So they gave us caster puck for no reason then as you cannot get the cambers without buying rear toe links, and more so top mounts if you then want to go above -2.7. So it is a bit of a joke to gain caster pucks without Porsche fitting rear adjustable toe link ! Then if you fit rear toe links to get more rear you then need to buy Motor sport top mounts, this is when you then need to adjust caster. Again the RS is a bit of a joke build oem for any proper track use. people say it’s a like a race car, but it's really not. Again then what is the MR kit doing for £54k ? You still don’t get rear toe links, let alone top mounts. The MR 4RS is still slower on the ring than an oem 992 GT3. But yes we have an adjustable caster puck lol.
£20k spend on the 4rs will still not match a 992, unless you then add aero also which is then a £30k spend, and you still have poor brakes at this point, so let’s say £35k spend then to be really competitive. Or just do the list below !
starts to get daft.
1: toe links
2: top mounts.
3: rear top mounts.
4: 2 way coil overs. Ok 3 :-)
5: set of new wheels and tyres.
6: new brake pads , lines and fluid.
7: set of better disks.
8: ok might as well now buy calipers !
9: front aero.
10: now need a new rear wing.
ok.its now getting like a race car, but what’s that lot cost £50k which I guess is less than an MR kit which is very lacking.
08-04-2024, 11:04 AM
#1212
Some of the comments on here 
The car is quick enough for us non pro racers. Get a decent geo and spent some time on improving your driving...
The car is quick enough for us non pro racers. Get a decent geo and spent some time on improving your driving...
08-04-2024, 11:10 AM
#1213
08-04-2024, 11:13 AM
#1214
08-04-2024, 12:15 PM
#1215
Same thing here. I’ll fit AO 52s probably in OEM sizes as I don ‘t want to lose the unsprung benefits of the standard Mags. You can buy a full set of AO 52s for £1360 here in the Uk. Will stick with standard PASM for now but will look for better dampers before next year. I’d love to fit some Ohlims TTXs but don’t want to lose the FAL because my garage has a inclined entrance.
If I had much deeper pockets I’d go all the way and fit the full Manthey Kit and ST brakes but at a silly £80k I’d be better off just switching to a 992 RS which is just perfect out of the box.
If I had much deeper pockets I’d go all the way and fit the full Manthey Kit and ST brakes but at a silly £80k I’d be better off just switching to a 992 RS which is just perfect out of the box.
Maybe in the future there's a benefit for me not having FAL 😄