Adrift

I've read through so many PCCB threads, my eyes are crossing. I've got the list of Pros and Cons memorized.

The hook that has me at all interested is the "better response / handling" angle, due to the reduction in unsprung weight. If I went that route, it would probably force me (to stay logically consistent) into getting a set of lightweight wheels as well, for max (unsprung) benefit. Then on to 19"s? More money!! A number of people have sworn you can tell a difference (confirmation bias?), but then of course an equal number have claimed that is BS.

The latest gen PCCBs seem to be reasonably durable, and are not the delicate glass items the older ones seemed to be. My intended usage (spirited special occasion driving in the hill country and in the Arkansas mountains combined with 3 to 4 weekend DEs a year) seems to fit inside the "they should last me a very long time" usage window. If they did wear out, I would definitely go with an aftermarket replacement.

Which leads me to my question...if I get the steelies, is there an aftermarket ceramic solution that fits using the existing red calipers? One that obviously achieves the reduction in weight goal? If so, please suggest some names, and approx cost. Does the yellow ceramic caliper have different mounting hardware? How does it account for the additional diameter on the PCCBs? Does my question even make sense (ie there is an aftermarket solution that provides this)?

As for the common reply these days that Porsche themselves says steelies are for people who track, I am just a bit cynical as to their sincerity on that, given how the introduction of ceramics went. They advertised them as the answer to all track driver's prayers, but then when people started wearing them out and complaining, they changed their tune. Did they change their tune because ceramics really aren't up to track work, or because they wanted to avoid the liability they encountered when they introduced them as awesome track brakes in the beginning? I tend to lean towards the "covering their asses" answer, given how they originally advertised them. I'm not saying track driving doesn't wear them out faster than otherwise (obviously), but is it really as black and white a decision as Porsche seems to indicate?

TIA for any insights, and apologies to any offended by "yet another PCCB thread"

JAhmed

Having driven and owned many of these cars, I think PCCB for a street car makes sense. Anecdotal, but have never met someone who specced the car with CCB and regretted it later. Have only heard of one instance of rotor damage/delamination thought to be secondary to road debris, and even that was "good willed" by Porsche. I do feel there is a handling difference that is discernible with PCCB.

If you plan on only road driving this car or maybe just doing a handful of track days, PCCB is a worthwhile addition to the car.

You are clearly overthinking the crap out of this, but hopefully the above is helpful in moving you in the right direction

theEnd

I think the PCCB rotors/calipers are larger than the steels, which means only 20” wheels can clear them. 19” wheels will only work with steel brakes.

I went with steel brakes on my Spyder, which I now regret because of the amount of brake dust they give off.

Lower unsprung mass would have been nice as well, but I doubt I would notice that. I did however notice the few thousand dollars still left in my bank account.

Montaver

The reduced unsprung weight makes a very noticeable difference to suspension response and compliance. They are much easier to clean which is a bonus. If you spec iron brakes but really want ceramics later, you could add Surface Transforms rotors.

They will be fine for casual DE use, make sure you do a proper cooldown lap and drive around the paddock for a minute or two. It's excessive heat that burns off the carbon in the rotors. Change the pads before you get to less than 50% to minimize heat transfer.

For a primarily street driven car with a few track days PCCB's are a very attractive option in my opinion.

Adrift

WRT track use - anticipated usage is 3 to 4 weekend DEs a year. Reality will be...? I do brake late and hard. lol I guess I could ease up.

In other threads, folks have claimed they can fit PCCBs in 19"s, although there was some back and forth as to whether folks believed them, but at least one guy seemed to have a legit story claiming he could. But 19"s aren't a huge priority for me; I'll probably stay on 20s.

$9k ain't chump change (plus potential for life force draining rotor replacement cost - lol), so...yeah, some overthinking MAY be happening. :-D

BTW, I am assuming I can keep them relatively squeak free with semi-regular hard braking "scrub" runs. Yes?

Adrift

More on this. Is this just a "remove old rotors, install new rotors, and swap out pads" thing? Or is there more to it than that? Can anyone ballpark the total cost for that switch to ST from steels?

TIA

StormRune

Just FYI: No squeaks or squeals from my PCCBs yet (1700 miles) and the feel of the car on normal roads is much smoother than I expected. But I can't say if that's partially from the unsprung mass reduction on not since I haven't driven a GT4 with steel brakes. I have to assume it is helping.

To help prevent the chance of squeaks, I'm only using PH-neutral soap on the whole car including wheels, soap with no waxes/additives and certainly no drive-thru/spray washes with acids. I understand a cause of squeaking can be waxes etc getting on the discs. I also don't spray the tire black directly on the tires to ensure there is no overspray. It goes on a sponge first and then the tire surface.

This is my 5th Porsche and the first with PCCBs. I'm still thrilled with the cleanliness and performance. I was so effing tired of cleaning the wheels on the prior cars or seeing them as the only dirty looking thing on the car. They feel great on the road and in autocross, where the wear isn't a concern. I only plan on doing a little full speed track driving.

Diablo Dude

PCCB's hands down.
No Brake Dust!

Adrift

Hmmm, could I live with yellow calipers on a guards red car? Saves me $800. I like the Chiefs colors fine, but it would be the only yellow on the car.

Alan C.

I had one 15 GT3 with iron rotors and one with PCCBs. I had no issues with either other than the noted dust. On my 16 GT4 with PCCBs I switched out to a set of Girodiscs. Personally I think you can adapt to either and I didn’t find a significant benefit to PCCBs. If I were doing a significant amount of track time I’d invest in a set of Radi-CAL brakes.

TRZ06

X2 for me as well. 1,800 miles on my 2022 and not a single squeak or squeal. I have even had it washed (prior to getting ceramic coating done) and nothing.

BTW, some have noted in the past (maybe on last gen. PCCB's) that they do not grip right away when wet, but I have not felt ANY difference in pedal pressure needed when it has been raining or on cold 32 degree CA mornings these last few weeks.

TRZ06

You can have them in black, it is an option.

Adrift

The question becomes, what is a "significant amount of track time?" Will the Radi-CAL brakes swap in if I get steels, or do I need to start from ceramics? I don't know what infrastructure changes (in terms of mounting / bracket hardware) between ordering steels and ceramics from the factory. I've never heard anyone describe that. Obviously the ceramic caliper has to mount to the car somewhere different than the steel-brake-system calipers do, due to the differences in rotor diameter. Or is the mounting location just different on the caliper, and the car setup is the same?

lol Yes, I know you can get them in black. Notice the comment about saving $800.

Zhao

If you track it 3-4 DE's a year I would not get PCCBs, unless you're rich than just go PCCBs. That is well into the realm of you are definitely going to have a big PCCB rotor bill unless you plan to sell the car within 5 years to a sucker who doesn't get a PPI. Yes, you could potentially ease up on the straightaway speeds and brakes at the end of those straights and prolong the PCCB life. As far as I know PCCBs wear much like say, tranny fluid. It has a temp range and if it exceeds that temp range it starts wearing exponentially faster (Which is why they suck for track use. I know a from a friends NSX he would have gotten 3 track days on the CCBs on that car with the way he drove at the track he was driving at. obviously you'll get way more track days out of PCCBs but the point is the life span is severely affected by heat abuse from DE's). So if you grandma'ed the car around the track in braking zones you might prolong the life of them to the point where it isn't a problem but that's not fun imo.

You could also order PCCBs and then go with iron replacements, swap them for your track season (if you do most of your track driving in half the year, then swap back..... but that seems sorta pointless to me).

Adrift

Uh oh, this is the first serious shot across the bow. I was getting the impression that my usage would be "light track work", and insignificant. Right as I was closing in on a decision.

Should I instead get the steels and swap them out for Radi-CALs? Would that approximate the weight savings of the OEM ceramics, with similar (or better) performance? I have no idea how much $$$ that swap would be, though.

Hmm, just browsed the AP Racing website, and they don't list Porsches as one of the manufacturers their kits support...? I jumped over to the Essex site, and they have steel kits for GTS, but nothing about gt4s/spyders. Just to be clear, is the Radi-CAL answer a better steel braking system, or alternative ceramic solution?