TRZ06

You should give one of the PEC's a call and ask to speak with the instructors and ask them what they see for wear. Most of their GT cars are on the PCCB's. That will give you some real world data points. I doubt the PEC would use PCCB's if they were replacing them all the time as they would lose money and not be profitable.

Adrift

Excellent idea!

DFW01TT

You're getting into the paralysis by analysis territory, which can be fun.
Either Porsche system will perform beyond our abilities (loosely collective, there may be outliers) on track.
The PCCB's are 9k extra with higher risk, but I think that's overblown.
The stock iron system is very effective because the pads have great friction, but they dust like crazy.
The AP Racing system is 12k, but an elegant solution, and dust is not a validated complaint. Unsprung weight is a big win with AP.
If the money didn't matter, I'd go with the AP, because you can sell them when done and recover part of that outlay. You can't do that by speccing either stock system.

Archimedes

This is all just entirely false. Jump over to the GT3 thread on this topic and read the posts by multiple track rats running Gen 3 PCCBs and getting a lot of life out of them.

OP, ymmv and make your own decision, but I’d ignore the extreme opinions, both positive and negative. The truth is in between.

enduro

I just put on a set of Radi-cals on my car. Claimed weight reduction vs steels is 33lbs, which I believe means they weigh closer to PCCBs than stock irons. A good portion of the mass loss will be the calipers, thus not rotating... though the rotor diameter is quite a bit smaller than much of the wheel and all of the tire so moment of inertia savings for brakes is less impactful than that for wheels and especially tires. Their calipers make you do a double take when you pick them up (they're lighter than you think they'll be).

Incredible brakes thus far, but I haven't given them a good track work out yet. They do make some racecar noises. Multiple pad options to choose from, what you select will have a big impact on various performance params; I'm running DS2500 on the street, they do make some dust, but I don't think worse than OEM. Puts a reddish tint on my satin black wheels.

It's notable that a lot of their benefits will show up when heavily tracked, and there are a couple drawbacks for certain street use, like the lack of dust boots (not an issue for me, but can be an issue for some).

To locate the GT4 kit on the Essex site, I had to use MY2021, they didn't have 2022 listed, at least as of a month or two ago. Same GT4 parts 2021 vs 2022.

Give Essex a call, they're very helpful.

sin911

OP, here is a question that has not been asked before: what color is your car going to be?

My car is Gentian Blue and dust is very visible as it is a dark color. Had I known I would have specced PCCB’s, one of my only regrets with my build.

I think PCCB’s should hold up fine a couple DE’s a year. From what I remember the pads for PCCB’s were supposed to be replaced with about 50 or 60% life to extend the life of the rotors, not sure if that applies to the newest generation discs.

Zhao

No. What the heck are you talking about? Nothing I said is false. It's not even controversial. If you jump over to the GT3 forum you'll see the average from people posting experiences on gt3s seems to be around 25 track days (that's what I came up with lurking over all the threads on 991's). Not every GT3 owner drives like michael Schumacher so if someone is greatly exceeding that amount it is more likely they are not pushing hard and therefore not building up as much heat or they are running short track days. And Porsche flat out says the reason they do not recommend PCCBs for track days is because of wear from heat buildup. When PCCBs heat rises it breaks down the carbon fibers and wear increases exponentially and that very similar to the temp:life graph of tranny fluid.

I specifically remember one guy ran 20 events on a brand new GT2RS, was changing to his 3rd set of pads or went through 3 sets of pads, rotors measured by Porsche were at 10% remaining. Advised to replace rotors and calipers by Porsche. I also remember, but I may be wrong, the lowest was 15 (or maybe it was 13) events on a gt3 before he had to change rotors. Bit extreme and way outside of the norm so I would discount as an outlier (I assumed long track sessions on a track that never let the brakes cool or put extreme heat into them) but may be still something to consider, much like my buddy with his NSX only getting what would work out to 3 events (shows that not all CCB's are created equal or that you really need to watch what track you drive on (because we were at a track that doesn't allow brakes to really cool at all) and check their wear rate).

If OP is running 4 events a year he's going to potentially require replacing them at the 4-5 year mark. That's not getting a lot of life out of them imo. Do you own research on the gt3 forum to verify but I took a quick glance and I don't see any new recent threads so it's likely the same info I read over the last couple years.



OP, I also wouldn't value what PEC says for wear as it's not a good source as they're not track driving the same way anyone would at an open track day. I instruct a lot and even in a school designed for more advanced students the pace is managed by the instructor to be very tame at the events I teach at so that students showing up with street cars without proper track prep (tires, brake fluid, good pads for track) rarely run into issues. I've seen videos from both PEC's and the instructors at PEC are controlling the students to the point where it looks very tame compared to what I do with a novice student who's never been on track before; nothing is getting pushed near the limit nor is heat building up. They also run very short sessions. Both those things guarantees they are generating far less heat than would be normal to generate at your average track day so it would be useless data so I would imagine they are getting street life levels of wear out of PCCBs.

Reedy

Radi-Cal's seem unnecessary to me unless you want to run 18 inch wheels for better tyre choice.

If you mostly drive on the road then PCCB's will last forever, but if you are going to track your car and are fine with sticking to 20 inch wheels then spec standard brakes, and think about buying a set of surface transforms when it comes time to replace them. They cost about the same as PCCB's but the rotors last 5x as long. Once I have an idea for the lifecycle costs based on my own personal usage I will make the same choice on whether to get ST's or stick with the steel rotors. I am not new to track days but I am new to this car so I don't have a feel for what my consumable usage will be like in the long run after only 4 track days in it. I do track days with some guys in GT4's who are 5 seconds slower than me and others who are 5 seconds faster so to think there is a 1 size fits all braking solution is daft.

Those who do regular track days are mad to be eating the cost of PCCB replacements when there is an alternative out there that is a fraction of the price to run and operate. I don't know any track day regulars who use PCCB's, everyone who runs ceramics in motorsport events uses surface transforms but the overwhelming majority use steel because it is cheaper and also opens up more wheel/tyre size options

jmartpr

Don't forget pad options...IMO an upgraded steel brakes system with good track pads and brake fluid will be much better than a PCCB system in terms of performance and feel.....but that's just me.
Brake dust is a non-issue for me but being able to use 19" wheel is a nice plus for the track (more tire choices and less cost).

Montaver

You absolutely do not need to get the full AP kit unless you are basically in dedicated track car territory, and even then stock iron brakes with a 2 piece rotor upgrade (Giro, AP, PFC etc.) are more than adequate. The GT4 is nicely over braked from factory, its the same brake system run on the GT3 which has significantly more power.

Effectively the PCCB and iron setups are very similar. Almost identical calipers, but the PCCB's caliper have a thicker mounting point to allow for a bigger rotor. Plenty of people then swap out the PCCB disk for iron with track pads (myself included). It is easy to swap out PCCB's, much more costly to retrofit. The downside of PCCB's is you are limited to 20 inch wheels. If you spec iron brakes but really want carbon discs, you just swap surface transforms in with the relevant pads. The surface transforms discs will set you back $13k.

Ultimately consider you will be happy with either setup Even the stock irons with some high temp fluid would be fine for most people on track. If your threshold braking every corner at 10/10ths for 30 minute sessions then that's obviously a different story.

FWIW I track a lot so I took my PCCB's off, but when I had them on they were awesome.

Bob Z.

Agree 100% - get them. My SA talked me out of them when I ordered my Targa GTS in 2019 and I wound up adding the OEM PCCBs to it several months later, so when I ordered my 2021 Spyder I got them albeit with Black calipers this time.

Adrift

Sin911: guards red, with platinum (ceramic coated) wheels. Not sure what I’ll use for the track yet, wheel wise.

Zhao: I was wondering that exact thing about the PEC instructors as a reference source. Is their usage pattern aggressive / similar enough? Maybe not.

Since getting PCCB with the car is such a deal, does anyone buy the PCCBs with a car and then Immediately harvest them for resale? lol I guess by the time you buy and install a replacement brake system, it’s a wash or a loss.

space man

I have not tracked either of my Porsches but would like to. I can tell you thou that my standard brakes are amazing for all but the most extreme circumstances? To me you are over thinking it, if the 9000grand does not effect your life get them forget the after market scenario.

iammacey

How long are you planning to keep the car?

One of the deterrents people have with PCCBs is cost of replacent rotors through Porsche. This is understandable given how much they cost. If ceramics were similar in price to irons, no one would run irons.

Ceramics perform better across the board. So the conversation is really about pricing.

You can spec PCCBs and if you aren't going to keep the car forever, you'll drive it how you want and likely never have the cost of replacement.

You can spec PCCBs then spend an additional $12k to buy Surface Transforms rotors. Store your PCCBs rotors for when you get rid of the car. You could also sell the OE rotors, but unless you're keeping the car forever, I wouldn't. Personally I would hold onto these and sell the STs later.

You can buy with irons and replace the rotors with Surface Transforms. Nothing else needed. Swap rotors and pads, good to go. This would get you total cost for little more than checking the PCCB box.

Buy irons. Run irons.

Option 2 or 3 will be my choice going forward. I have PCCBs on my GT4 and will be throwing Surface Transforms rotors on the car next year. I have GiroDiscs, great rotors, hate running them. The weight change is immediately felt.

​​​​​​Stop hyper analyzing it. You aren't putting yourself in a box you can't get out of later.

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Adrift

The rub isn’t the entry price (well, not entirely), it’s the approx $24k rotor replacement cost, and the track is the concern with respect to wearing them out.

What if I plan to run through the stock rotors, and then replace them with STs? Would that cut the cost by at least 50% and give me similar weight and performance? I guess I need to investigate what all it takes to go to STs (or Radicals).

I’m not really concerned with resale. Unless I get a spyder rs or possibly a gt3 allocation (both seem impossible, at this point), I’ll probably keep this car, given there’s the fair chance this is the best NA mid-engined drop top (non super car) Porsche will make. I’m 56 and given the knee in the “reasonably healthy” curve seems to be 70’s, that ain’t forever away. Plus, we seem headed into the “end times” at Mach speed, so there’s that. lol Climate, Russia, China, internal extremism…I’m doing my best Slim Pickins bomb riding imitation. But I digress.

Update: Thanks for the ST pricing, Macey. You were answering as I was asking. Now I am thinking run the stock ceramic rotors until they need replacing, and then get the STs. The last concern then would be everyone at the track thinking I am an idiot for running my OEM ceramics at the track. The “buy with irons and immediately replace with STs” is an interesting angle, though. Same weight and performance as oem ceramics?