Porsche Confirms End of ICE For Cayman/Boxter
#31
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Location: Orange County California
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I've had and have Hybrids (Honda Civic and BMW X5) and full EV's as well (KIA EV6 and BMW i4). Particularly with the X5 and ever more so with the i4 . . . . once you've had a good EV, and none of ours have ever given any trouble, it becomes really hard to justify an ICE drive-train. I really hope Porsche's EV Boxters and Cayman's hit it out of the park. I hope they're good enough that I'll be convinced to sell my C2S in favor of an EV Cayman.
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#32
Drifting
I've had and have Hybrids (Honda Civic and BMW X5) and full EV's as well (KIA EV6 and BMW i4). Particularly with the X5 and ever more so with the i4 . . . . once you've had a good EV, and none of ours have ever given any trouble, it becomes really hard to justify an ICE drive-train. I really hope Porsche's EV Boxters and Cayman's hit it out of the park. I hope they're good enough that I'll be convinced to sell my C2S in favor of an EV Cayman.
For me while i dont own any EVs, plenty of my friends do, and what they've had to go through is enough to show me that an EV would be more of a hassle than a boon. My friend the other day had range anxiety as he was at 9% charge left and was trying to make his way to a charger and just wasnt sure if he could make it. He doesnt live in a house with a garage that he can use, and while he gets free charging at work, it was a long weekend so he didnt need to go in. Also he drives a Tesla and the build quality on that car is horrible so theres also that...but thats mostly a Tesla thing.
My other friend constantly complains about the range in his EV6, he loves the car but he doesnt like how he cant do a long trip in it unless he specifically plans out a route that has chargers. So instead he takes his hybrid because he can just use gas if he needs to.
And for me i just hate how they drive, The instant torque was fun for like 2 seconds but i actually hate it after driving a Tesla for an extended time when i rent one. Also the 1 pedal driving needs to just go away. It's easily the worst part about the whole EV driving experience. Also i hate how most EVs are relying on the whole 1 screen do everything mentality. Call me old school but all i want is a volume **** and climate control buttons. Make everything else go through the screen fine, but i hate needing to do more than 2 actions just to do something like turn on my AC.
I can see the benefits of EVs, but so many things need to change before i jump onto that bandwagon. Range would need to double, or charging time would need to be cut down significantly. I personally would like to see performance on EVs to be toned down a lot. I personally believe that the instant torque and speed that EVs can give you plus the fact that many average drivers dont actually know how to handle a car that goes that fast results in a lot more accidents and crappy driving nowadays than before. 9/10 accidents i see in my area (and theres about 1 every day at minimum) are caused or have a Tesla involved. I think your average driver doesnt know that a 4000lb vehicle needs significantly more room to stop than their old Honda Civic.
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TubaFreak (07-11-2024)
#33
I'm curious what about your EV's make it hard for you to justify an ICE drive train? Of course theres the obvious "dont have to pay for gas" but for me thats offset by how long it takes for you to charge back to full.
For me while i dont own any EVs, plenty of my friends do, and what they've had to go through is enough to show me that an EV would be more of a hassle than a boon. My friend the other day had range anxiety as he was at 9% charge left and was trying to make his way to a charger and just wasnt sure if he could make it. He doesnt live in a house with a garage that he can use, and while he gets free charging at work, it was a long weekend so he didnt need to go in. Also he drives a Tesla and the build quality on that car is horrible so theres also that...but thats mostly a Tesla thing.
My other friend constantly complains about the range in his EV6, he loves the car but he doesnt like how he cant do a long trip in it unless he specifically plans out a route that has chargers. So instead he takes his hybrid because he can just use gas if he needs to.
And for me i just hate how they drive, The instant torque was fun for like 2 seconds but i actually hate it after driving a Tesla for an extended time when i rent one. Also the 1 pedal driving needs to just go away. It's easily the worst part about the whole EV driving experience. Also i hate how most EVs are relying on the whole 1 screen do everything mentality. Call me old school but all i want is a volume **** and climate control buttons. Make everything else go through the screen fine, but i hate needing to do more than 2 actions just to do something like turn on my AC.
I can see the benefits of EVs, but so many things need to change before i jump onto that bandwagon. Range would need to double, or charging time would need to be cut down significantly. I personally would like to see performance on EVs to be toned down a lot. I personally believe that the instant torque and speed that EVs can give you plus the fact that many average drivers dont actually know how to handle a car that goes that fast results in a lot more accidents and crappy driving nowadays than before. 9/10 accidents i see in my area (and theres about 1 every day at minimum) are caused or have a Tesla involved. I think your average driver doesnt know that a 4000lb vehicle needs significantly more room to stop than their old Honda Civic.
For me while i dont own any EVs, plenty of my friends do, and what they've had to go through is enough to show me that an EV would be more of a hassle than a boon. My friend the other day had range anxiety as he was at 9% charge left and was trying to make his way to a charger and just wasnt sure if he could make it. He doesnt live in a house with a garage that he can use, and while he gets free charging at work, it was a long weekend so he didnt need to go in. Also he drives a Tesla and the build quality on that car is horrible so theres also that...but thats mostly a Tesla thing.
My other friend constantly complains about the range in his EV6, he loves the car but he doesnt like how he cant do a long trip in it unless he specifically plans out a route that has chargers. So instead he takes his hybrid because he can just use gas if he needs to.
And for me i just hate how they drive, The instant torque was fun for like 2 seconds but i actually hate it after driving a Tesla for an extended time when i rent one. Also the 1 pedal driving needs to just go away. It's easily the worst part about the whole EV driving experience. Also i hate how most EVs are relying on the whole 1 screen do everything mentality. Call me old school but all i want is a volume **** and climate control buttons. Make everything else go through the screen fine, but i hate needing to do more than 2 actions just to do something like turn on my AC.
I can see the benefits of EVs, but so many things need to change before i jump onto that bandwagon. Range would need to double, or charging time would need to be cut down significantly. I personally would like to see performance on EVs to be toned down a lot. I personally believe that the instant torque and speed that EVs can give you plus the fact that many average drivers dont actually know how to handle a car that goes that fast results in a lot more accidents and crappy driving nowadays than before. 9/10 accidents i see in my area (and theres about 1 every day at minimum) are caused or have a Tesla involved. I think your average driver doesnt know that a 4000lb vehicle needs significantly more room to stop than their old Honda Civic.
however, it is great for me as I have easy access to a charger. I have never ran into problems as it’s extremely rare I need to drive for longer distance than a full charge.
ICE drivetrains just need more work. The EVs have so little wear and tear parts relatively. My family has a Model X, and it’s still on the original battery and everything except for suspension after about 100,000miles. Put an ICE in there, the cost of all the fluids and other random parts would have cost a lot more, and the car would have spent a lot more in the shop repairing. The only thing that EVs tend to rack up a higher bill on is the tires, especially with the Tesla. it almost felt like the suspension is fundamentally flawed and has messed up design. The outside of the tires wear out disproportionally quicker compared to other cars at home— alignment was checked and all that
I don’t care about the instant torque from an acceleration perspective. I have a iX1. It does 0-60mph in some 5.5 seconds or whatever. I don’t think I have done anything more than 50pcf of accelerator since day one, and most of the time I just do 20-30pct max. Where EVs really shine is the smooth acceleration, and the totally precise/accurate accelerator response especially on BMWs. The instant torque is huge for comfort as I am able to control things far better and more accurately around town. Many passengers, including extremely picky ones, have made complements about how comfortable the ride is in my iX1. I live in a hilly area with a lot of tighter turns. The mix of lower center of gravity, regen on coasting downhill, and extremely linear and predictable throttle response all add up to a much more comfortable ride. My kids are extremely fussed about ride quality, and they have no clue what is an EV. The pretty much think all other cars are dizzy after sitting in the iX1, which is the lowest model from BMW. It’s not even using premium suspension that iX uses.
I agree on the Tesla observation. Unfortunately, many think it’s cool to put the accelerator to the floor all the time. Another problem is because EVs have such low center of gravity, often times you don’t notice roll on the car. So drivers probably think the car has a lot more to go before grip is gone, but clearly not the case especially with such a heavy car.. On top of that the acceleration is just too easily accessible with no sound and everything else to scare you. Another problem is Tesla calls the modes “comfort” and “standard” or something for the accelerator. The car defaults to “standard”, which is far too aggressive in response. They should have named it “comfort” and “sport”, while defaulting to comfort mode. Average drivers are just not patient enough to feather the accelerator to achieve better comfort and safety. Teslas really aren't the greatest EVs out there. The suspension really isn't the most comfortable out there.
EVs don’t need more room to stop. For the same speed, using same distance, the passengers are feeling less of a jolt/brake dive as well. The whole ride experience is just better. EVs don’t have an issue with brakes under normal circumstance, it’s just people driving those teslas are pushing way beyond the limit. These guys would still crash when driving a 3000lbs car instead of a 4500lbs EV. It’s only because things are so quiet and the acceleration is no sound, no feedback, and nothing to scare the driver.
Last edited by KingSize.Hamster; 07-11-2024 at 01:50 PM.
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NA4.0 (07-11-2024)
#35
I'm curious what about your EV's make it hard for you to justify an ICE drive train? Of course theres the obvious "dont have to pay for gas" but for me thats offset by how long it takes for you to charge back to full.
For me while i dont own any EVs, plenty of my friends do, and what they've had to go through is enough to show me that an EV would be more of a hassle than a boon. My friend the other day had range anxiety as he was at 9% charge left and was trying to make his way to a charger and just wasnt sure if he could make it. He doesnt live in a house with a garage that he can use, and while he gets free charging at work, it was a long weekend so he didnt need to go in. Also he drives a Tesla and the build quality on that car is horrible so theres also that...but thats mostly a Tesla thing.
My other friend constantly complains about the range in his EV6, he loves the car but he doesnt like how he cant do a long trip in it unless he specifically plans out a route that has chargers. So instead he takes his hybrid because he can just use gas if he needs to.
And for me i just hate how they drive, The instant torque was fun for like 2 seconds but i actually hate it after driving a Tesla for an extended time when i rent one. Also the 1 pedal driving needs to just go away. It's easily the worst part about the whole EV driving experience. Also i hate how most EVs are relying on the whole 1 screen do everything mentality. Call me old school but all i want is a volume **** and climate control buttons. Make everything else go through the screen fine, but i hate needing to do more than 2 actions just to do something like turn on my AC.
I can see the benefits of EVs, but so many things need to change before i jump onto that bandwagon. Range would need to double, or charging time would need to be cut down significantly. I personally would like to see performance on EVs to be toned down a lot. I personally believe that the instant torque and speed that EVs can give you plus the fact that many average drivers dont actually know how to handle a car that goes that fast results in a lot more accidents and crappy driving nowadays than before. 9/10 accidents i see in my area (and theres about 1 every day at minimum) are caused or have a Tesla involved. I think your average driver doesnt know that a 4000lb vehicle needs significantly more room to stop than their old Honda Civic.
For me while i dont own any EVs, plenty of my friends do, and what they've had to go through is enough to show me that an EV would be more of a hassle than a boon. My friend the other day had range anxiety as he was at 9% charge left and was trying to make his way to a charger and just wasnt sure if he could make it. He doesnt live in a house with a garage that he can use, and while he gets free charging at work, it was a long weekend so he didnt need to go in. Also he drives a Tesla and the build quality on that car is horrible so theres also that...but thats mostly a Tesla thing.
My other friend constantly complains about the range in his EV6, he loves the car but he doesnt like how he cant do a long trip in it unless he specifically plans out a route that has chargers. So instead he takes his hybrid because he can just use gas if he needs to.
And for me i just hate how they drive, The instant torque was fun for like 2 seconds but i actually hate it after driving a Tesla for an extended time when i rent one. Also the 1 pedal driving needs to just go away. It's easily the worst part about the whole EV driving experience. Also i hate how most EVs are relying on the whole 1 screen do everything mentality. Call me old school but all i want is a volume **** and climate control buttons. Make everything else go through the screen fine, but i hate needing to do more than 2 actions just to do something like turn on my AC.
I can see the benefits of EVs, but so many things need to change before i jump onto that bandwagon. Range would need to double, or charging time would need to be cut down significantly. I personally would like to see performance on EVs to be toned down a lot. I personally believe that the instant torque and speed that EVs can give you plus the fact that many average drivers dont actually know how to handle a car that goes that fast results in a lot more accidents and crappy driving nowadays than before. 9/10 accidents i see in my area (and theres about 1 every day at minimum) are caused or have a Tesla involved. I think your average driver doesnt know that a 4000lb vehicle needs significantly more room to stop than their old Honda Civic.
That said, I cannot wait to get a EV in the mix alongside my 1M and GTS. My main quibble has been the lack of a matching candidate, and with the reveal of the Rivian R3x, that problem has been solved for me. A good looking, high quality, US Made, Small EV SUV to play daily driver alongside my ICE toys? What's not to love?
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gymdent (07-13-2024)
#37
As mentioned above, NOPE. So you have a little less than a year, to place an order. Production reportedly ceases in early August. I got one of the last '24 orders, and freeze date was 6/17. So it should be the same thing next year. Hope this helps.
#38
Either case, maybe Porsche will bring out a 4RS with no aero with 3 pedals. Might still be a chance there
Last edited by KingSize.Hamster; 07-11-2024 at 09:58 PM.
#39
Depends on the market. I'm in the US, where all models will sell in '25, as far as I know. The EU market will get RSs for sure, but not sure about the GT4 and Spyder. The lesser models (all H4Ts, and GTS 4.0s) are out for sure, as well as all Macans, for what I've heard. I have no idea about other markets, like yours.
#40
Rennlist Member
Depends on the market. I'm in the US, where all models will sell in '25, as far as I know. The EU market will get RSs for sure, but not sure about the GT4 and Spyder. The lesser models (all H4Ts, and GTS 4.0s) are out for sure, as well as all Macans, for what I've heard. I have no idea about other markets, like yours.
#42
#43
Instructor
Thread Starter
You do realize EVs have a lot of benefits right? While I like my sports cars to burn dinosaurs I totally understand the appeal of an EV sports car. My DD is an EV and it's a fantastic EV, a sports car could also be fantastic. I just want my weekend ride to feature explosions and noise. Garbage, however, they are not.
Last edited by matt0520; 07-12-2024 at 12:48 PM.
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TubaFreak (07-12-2024)
#44
Burning Brakes
Because there are only so many production slots to go around and those are now being used for RS variants.
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Mike981S (07-12-2024)
#45
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
GT4 and Spyder discontinued year ago worldwide.
Just raise GTS prices to same level as GT cars…no loss