JCtx

Hey, you misplaced the 'e'; it's Osnabrueck. Going back to the subject, it was reported that the new Cayman (whenever it pops up) won't be just EV, but both (EV AND ICE). Has Porsche said anything about that? By the way, salesman said no more manual 911s for 2025. I'm not going to buy one, but just curious if that's true. Right now there are no more base or S manual 911s (except the 'special' model T), but guy said not even GTSs or GT cars anymore, due to the new hybrid platform being incompatible. Just curious about that. Finally, I was happy to get a '24 Style Edition at MSRP, which is an August allocation, with early October delivery. I thought about waiting for a '25, since they'll be close (December deliveries), but since I want a manual, it'd have been about $3,400 more expensive (PDK is only about $500, mostly the destination increase), so jumped on the '24. Salesman also said they might charge ADM for 2025, but I bet it was just to pressure me to get the '24. Ha ha. Or maybe because it's the last year?

Drifting

No more non RS ICE 718 models for the EU, and Australia. Those are done by the end of this month. However, There is a waiver for low volume GT4RS and Spyder RS only, so a few of those will trickle into the EU this year.

All remaining ICE 718 production worldwide will end by Oct 2025.

So, the ICE/EV overlap you mentioned will only last for one year. After October 2025, only EV 718s will be made worldwide.

TXshaggy

My guess is not all trims make it to the end…

JCtx

Thank you for that info. I wonder if that's written in stone, with EV sales now stagnant. Also wonder what's going to happen to that now lost EU production. Will Porsche still make those cars, and dump them in other markets, causing oversupply? Or just lower production and keep the same supply as if nothing had happened? I'd like to hear your take, since you're very knowledgeable. Thanks again.

Xxyion

most of these have basically been answered by Porsche themselves. While EV sales have been faltering and people are turning to hybrids, i dont see Porsche pulling back on their push for the new 718 to be EV. They are technically entering a niche market in an already niche market. And the money counters at Porsche probably already understand that its never going to sell as well as their Macan or their 911. As far as current production, they've moved all 718 production to Osnabruck which i believe shares production with the Macan and the Cayenne. We can already see production slowing down as average delivery time for a 718 is between 4-8 months. Vs a 911 where average delivery seems to be between 2-6 months.

997turbocab

If I put my Porsche marketing hat on I would say they discontinue the ICE, wait for the initial EV sales to falter and then bring back the ICE like they did with the manual transmission in the GT3 etc.

BoxKing

My best guess is that they’re ending production this time next year or sooner. The EV will release end of 25’, Q1 MY26’. The offerings will be to those who want a street cruiser, only available in lower trims. Then MY27/28’ will launch the hybrid models of the 718, which will be dialed in by Porsche after 2-3 years of 992.2 production experience. I tend to “never say never”, but I will NEVER buy a Cayman EV that can only be used on the street, though a hybrid might be entertaining, and it would have to be in the form of a GT trim, that has both form & function far superior than my current GT4…. Oh, and Im currently not going to bite on some crazy price tag of >150k (right now).

Xxyion

If Porsche keep developing their hybrid technology i totally see them moving the 718(or whatever its called by then) onto a hybrid platform. EV sales are slowing and a lot of companies are moving back to hybrid since EV lost so much money. In my mind a future Cayman would sport a NA flat 6 with a hybrid motor for low end performance.much like the new 992.2 GTS is. Unless Porsche somehow have some crazy breakthrough with their EV 718 or if for some reason sales shoot through the roof, i dont really see them sticking with an EV platform for very long.

JCtx

Very interesting comments. I also think Porsche would bring back ICE Caymans, if they actually stop making them as planned (which I doubt. Ha ha). I just don't see the appeal of an EV Cayman sports car at all. And even less if you actually own (or owned) one, like most of us here. It'd be nothing compared to what it is now. Putting the battery pack under the seat would kill the car, riding like a minivan. It'd have to be in the front, killing the frunk, plus how big could it be? So range would be crap, and with that much weight in front, it'd kill its legendary handling too, no? I just don't see who would buy such a car, at least at the price it's expected to sell. Maybe when battery technology improves (Toyota is the only hope now, with its solid state battery development due in '25), but right now, I just don't see it. Hope I'm wrong, but we'll see. And I owned a new Tesla already, so it's not like I don't know anything about EVs. Unfortunately for them, now I know enough, not to want another one. Ha ha. At least until the technology improves dramatically.

TXshaggy

Unless worldwide governments change their existing emissions regulations these cars never coming back.

At some point in the not-to-distant future if you want a new car EV will be your only choice.

Expect it more and more as there are intermediate emissions goals that have to be met.

crikett

Based on so many of the comments, it seems like many don't understand exactly why Porsche (and almost every other manufacturer) is shifting almost everything to EV - but in short, they prefer not to go out of business in 10 years due to not having any products they can sell! This is an obvious barrier to success for a company. 2035 is a key year, with many markets set to require net-zero (or zero) emissions for all new vehicles sold. If you look over these markets, Porsche would be losing about 80% of their sales volume, which would kill the company. The choice isn't having a Porsche company that makes EV or ICE, it is having or not having a Porsche company. Porsche is invested in this direction for very good reason.

Why would you want an electric Cayman? You may not... but, let's keep in mind, if you've been around long enough, then you've already heard people claim they would never want a water cooled Porsche, or a Porsche with electronics controlling the clutch, and so on, and yet, here we are. The ePerformance GT4 showed what we could expect in an electric club racer, and one not yet blessed with some of the key technologies that will come along in the next 5-7 years. The bottom line, Porsche is soon to deliver a car that is much faster, more efficient, and reliable than what they are producing now. And given that they've managed to deliver a genuine Porsche driving experience in SUVs, it seems pretty certain the 983 (and whatever else comes next) are going to be pretty great sports cars. They are not going to be the same as what we have now, but what we have now also isn't what Porsche made decades before now!

You've had an EV, and you're not convinced? Because you once had a Ford Contour as a rental car, did you think, I drove an ICE car, why would I want a 718 or 911? I currently have a Macan sitting at the port in Emden waiting to get to me. I drove other SUVs, and I generally hate them and the driving experience they provide. The Macan will be my new daily driver when it gets here, and I got it because it drives like a Porsche. If I judged it based on someone else's offering... well, that is the point. If you have a Porsche, then you already know they are not like other cars, and that is a key thing we love about them.

They'll just bring back ICE when EV sales don't go as hoped. Again, revisit why they are making this change. And then, consider the time it takes to develop a car. The 983 is a bespoke EV platform - that is, there isn't anywhere to put the engine. So, not only would an ICE version require years of development work (and expense), it also wouldn't be able to be sold in most places Porsche needs to sell cars.

Why not hybrid: the eTurbo performance is fantastic, and it was clearly something Porsche was high on as soon as the 919 started having success. And there may have been plans to move that across the product line, but that is all past tense, due to that net-zero/zero requirement. We'll see it in the short term... and maybe longer in limited capacity, because some key markets are currently saying net-zero emissions, while others are saying zero. The net option opens the eFuels possibilities, and Porsche is investing heavily here. There are problems with this approach (mainly, that is is still just gas, and you can buy an eFuels car and still run it on regular gas for much much much less; something regulators may not allow to stand once it happens). But the near term possibility of net-zero is what has allowed Porsche to move slower with the 911, and that they will likely keep other ICE options around until they run have problems with something like the cyber security laws.

All that said, I am not personally at a point where I would get an EV... yet. I've bought two new Porsches in the last couple years, and neither are electric (even though an electric Macan was available). I am unconvinced that the price premium attached to an electric is worth it, even if all convenience issues were the same (and they are not... and the premium you pay for electric is not off-set by fuel and maintenance savings for quite awhile, given that insurance and residual values are much more costly). But, in a few years? New batteries will be both lighter and higher capacity. Porsche is investing heavily in developing their own electric motors, which we already see advances in the new Taycan. Residuals will get better as people adjust to EVs, and more EVs with buidl quality better than Tesla get on the market. A little like waiting for that crossover point to switch from intermediates to slicks... it isn't here yet, but it is getting closer, and before long I fully expect to have electric Porsches blowing past me on track.

Xxyion

I think you make some very good points. However i will counter that this is all assuming that these environmental movements are set in stone or as clearcut as you make them.

As of right now EVs still generate as much if not more toxic waste than ICE cars, it's just the waste is all upfront and again at the end of life of the car. We still do not have a good way of disposing battery waste and it's currently one of the most toxic things for our environment. Oil is just as bad though and oil waste has been around for much longer so i do understand that.

Then let's not forget our good friends the lobbyists. As of right now we all know the push for EVs from our government has never been about the environment. It's been more about making money they can make from it. If they truly cared about the environment, they would have funded the technology to make sure that everything is more sustainable including the mining of lithium and the disposal of batteries. Now knowing that, we also know that the only car company that is currently making a profit from their EVs is Tesla, and even then Tesla is already starting to falter as there is an overabundance of EV cars sitting in lots now. I believe Ford has lost over a billion dollars with their EV push. Kia and Lexus have both started pushing their hybrid vehicles more and Toyota has basically only released the BZX(or whatever) to pretend like they are joining the party but in reality they couldnt care less. Knowing all that i would not be surprised if in a few years all these companies start lobbying either to push back the date, or to loosen the restrictions on cars to allow for a wider range of high efficiency ICE engines and/or hybrid vehicles. Money is always the name of the game, and when big companies feel like they are losing too much money, they will spend A LOT of money to make sure they can keep making it. You can count on that.

With all that being said Hybrid engines are a technology that for some reason we have only now really started to pursue. Sure there were cars like the Prius, but the reality is, plug in hybrids didnt really become a major thing until recently. If Porsche starting to but some R&D into hybrid technology (obv they have with the new 911 GTS), it could mean that this is their backup plan in case there is no longer a requirement for EVs anymore.

While we could go round and round forever with the ICE vs EV debate, what it really comes down to is money. If car companies are losing this much money on EVs now, they arent going to try and wait till everyone in the world is driving EVs to make a profit. Capitalism (especially in the US) has always been about short term gains and i really dont see that changing anytime soon. I personally dont think we'lll be seeing an all EV future anytime soon. If anything i think the fad is ending and i feel hybrid technology will actually be the next major step. We already have the infrastructure for it, its cheaper to manufacture than an EV, and it would be a lot easier to adopt.

crikett

I don't think it is clearcut, or an outright advantage, just that that is what is happening. I think there are quite a few problems with the gap between the green potential of EVs and the green reality. Things seem to be moving to close the gap in some areas, but I would characterize it as a real concern, and one I would like to hear being discussed more in these plans.

While I think there is some care from some areas about the environment, what laws are on the books are less about that than optics and import/export positioning. Though I do think companies will be profitable with EVs when it is all said and done, but there are shifts in consumer habit that, at best, are only just starting.

While I think a less aggressive approach would've made much more sense on so many levels, I have a hard time seeing things back track. Porsche, like many other companies, would need to be spending money now and in the next few years, to be ready for such a change. However, they are spending money on EV development. Lobbying has already happened, and in a few years, companies would be faced with the reality that markets could already be shifting, and that if they spend on lobbying and then shift development, they could be setting themselves up as even bigger losers. I think it more likely they will go with what has happened and continue with their current development... it isn't like their competition is better off, and unexpected change is just that, unexpected and even more difficult to predict. if they could have avoided these laws a couple years ago, they would have... but now?

I personally think hybrids make more sense in every possible way. And that even if zero emissions are the ultimate goal, they are really more emissions friendly in many cases than EVs (which are better if they get their charge from clean energy sources, but other sources have less emissions regulation than cars). And there is clearly some big advances and ideas in this area... but I don't see too much happening here, other than what we are seeing, because of what 2035 represents. Porsche already invested heavily in this R&D back in 2012-2015, and we are now seeing the result. They were still advancing and working on this over the following 5-6 years, and now we are here. Will likely see it on a new 911 Turbo and GT2... maybe it will show up on something else like a Panamera? But like other things, it is hard to see Porsche putting more money into something that has an expiration date at the moment. Electric motors and eFuels seem to be their big money spends.

Exactly. While I would personally prefer ICE to be an option, I am ultimately fairly agnostic in terms of recognizing faster is faster, and it seems like the EV potential is heading in that direction. But it is about money, which was very much my original point. Porsche wants to survive this market change, and it is a very unsettled market. However, if EVs are what can be bought, and that is all there is to choose from in most markets, it stands to reason, they will sell? Ultimately it will be very interesting to see how it all shakes out and where things do wind up, but given where we are, what is set out in laws set to go live in the near future in markets that Porsche will not survive if they are kept out, I think their basic strategy and transition plans (at least as far as we know) make sense. I have no plans to replace any of my Porsche, or any other car in the family with an EV. It strikes me that it is possible that I never will, given how long I often keep cars, and considering how long I may be driving... but I may well revisit that idea in a number of years when I become personally convinced about EV value. I can clearly see the potential on all fronts. I am not sure if we will realize that potential when these laws go live, though some of the coming battery tech is going to make huge strides, and at some point is is going to be hard to argue with (or how much companies will be making off of them, though quite a few things the market needs to adjust to and sort out in how consumers will relate to these products too).

CarGuy07

Is there a chance Porsche will once again make ICE GT4 and Spyder for one or more years given that EV demand has dropped quite a bit?

TXshaggy

Not a chance, GT4/Spyder ended production a year ago.

You can step up to a 718 RS or down to the GTS.