A40 vs C40 Approved Motor Oil
#46
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
The last time I looked for C40 oil there was *no* source at all. I was happy to find one source this time.
Anything more than $25 for a 5qt jug is robbery.
There’s plenty of A40 to be found. I am disturbed that C40 is not - apparently- backward compatible with A40 for insufficiently-transparent reasons. In the US with no GPF one might suspect that A40 would work fine. But the referenced incompatibility smells like there might also be a change to the matrix in the catalytic converters too. More info required. In the mean time we pay >> $5 per quart.
Anything more than $25 for a 5qt jug is robbery.
There’s plenty of A40 to be found. I am disturbed that C40 is not - apparently- backward compatible with A40 for insufficiently-transparent reasons. In the US with no GPF one might suspect that A40 would work fine. But the referenced incompatibility smells like there might also be a change to the matrix in the catalytic converters too. More info required. In the mean time we pay >> $5 per quart.
Also note that the MY2019 cars also require the new C40 even if they came with no GPF exhaust.
#47
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Gone. On the Open Road
Posts: 16,537
Received 1,675 Likes
on
1,087 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
It appears to be the same ESP formulation as earlier in this thread and on Mobile’s site as C40.You’ll note that the ‘product information’ on walmart is for the FS formulation.
Can’t know for sure until you have a bottle in your hand.
I thought it was MY ‘20 and it was indeed coincident with GPF in Europe.
Can’t know for sure until you have a bottle in your hand.
I thought it was MY ‘20 and it was indeed coincident with GPF in Europe.
#48
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
The last time I looked for C40 oil there was *no* source at all. I was happy to find one source this time.
Anything more than $25 for a 5qt jug is robbery.
There’s plenty of A40 to be found. I am disturbed that C40 is not - apparently- backward compatible with A40 for insufficiently-transparent reasons. In the US with no GPF one might suspect that A40 would work fine. But the referenced incompatibility smells like there might also be a change to the matrix in the catalytic converters too. More info required. In the mean time we pay >> $5 per quart.
Anything more than $25 for a 5qt jug is robbery.
There’s plenty of A40 to be found. I am disturbed that C40 is not - apparently- backward compatible with A40 for insufficiently-transparent reasons. In the US with no GPF one might suspect that A40 would work fine. But the referenced incompatibility smells like there might also be a change to the matrix in the catalytic converters too. More info required. In the mean time we pay >> $5 per quart.
From what I have read about C40 there is a significant change in the formulation to to prevent LSPI, changes in the detergent formulation and reduced anti-wear additives like ZDDP, IMHO enough changes that getting the right spec is crucial (at least to me) for my new Spyder.
The hunt continues...
@Jet Jockey it would seem from your pictures the product code might be 826529 at least for the 1l size, I am going to check with my Porsche Service department.
Last edited by Westcoast; 11-02-2020 at 02:41 PM. Reason: adding possible product code
#49
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Gone. On the Open Road
Posts: 16,537
Received 1,675 Likes
on
1,087 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
From what I have read about C40 there is a significant change in the formulation to to prevent LSPI, changes in the detergent formulation and reduced anti-wear additives like ZDDP, IMHO enough changes that getting the right spec is crucial (at least to me) for my new Spyder.
Not that I'm going to put anything other than a C40 oil one of our '21s. Not until I know a lot more. And no C40 oil will go in a pre-C40 engine.
#50
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Gone. On the Open Road
Posts: 16,537
Received 1,675 Likes
on
1,087 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
According to Mobil's site:
https://www.mobil.com/lubricants/-/m...94A7396657AC09
... Porsche C40 oil does not exist.
October 2019 date on that.
Here... this'll make your head explode then:
https://www.suncoastparts.com/produc...D_BwE[/url
Looks like @Jet Jockey is correct: C40 with MY'19. So, we've had two years for Mobil/Porsche/Motul (etc.) to get their $h1+ together on C40 oil.
https://www.mobil.com/lubricants/-/m...94A7396657AC09
... Porsche C40 oil does not exist.
October 2019 date on that.
Here... this'll make your head explode then:
https://www.suncoastparts.com/produc...D_BwE[/url
Looks like @Jet Jockey is correct: C40 with MY'19. So, we've had two years for Mobil/Porsche/Motul (etc.) to get their $h1+ together on C40 oil.
#51
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
According to Mobil's site:
https://www.mobil.com/lubricants/-/m...94A7396657AC09
... Porsche C40 oil does not exist.
October 2019 date on that.
Here... this'll make your head explode then:
https://www.suncoastparts.com/produc...D_BwE[/url
Looks like @Jet Jockey is correct: C40 with MY'19. So, we've had two years for Mobil/Porsche/Motul (etc.) to get their $h1+ together on C40 oil.
https://www.mobil.com/lubricants/-/m...94A7396657AC09
... Porsche C40 oil does not exist.
October 2019 date on that.
Here... this'll make your head explode then:
https://www.suncoastparts.com/produc...D_BwE[/url
Looks like @Jet Jockey is correct: C40 with MY'19. So, we've had two years for Mobil/Porsche/Motul (etc.) to get their $h1+ together on C40 oil.
The other strange thing that I found during my research was a performance drop (on paper) with cars associated with the new oil formulation. The 0-60 mph times for the MY2019 Caymans IIRC increased by 0.5 of a second according to Porsche data. I'm left wondering if the new oil and new exhausts require a re-tune of the ECU to meet certain criteria and perhaps a drop in acceleration performance.
I must say I'm glad I got a MY2018 GTS and avoiding all this messy oil issue.
The following users liked this post:
CaymanMatt (11-03-2020)
#52
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
the new oil or the new exhaust with filter? i've believe the latter could effect 0-60 times.
#53
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
times and that’s the year the new oil formulation came into effect yet and as far as I know the exhaust system here in North America was not changed. So if those numbers from Porsche are correct and there is a real performance loss, then it must be because of the switch to the new oil type but why I don’t know.
Last edited by Jet Jockey; 11-03-2020 at 10:47 AM.
#54
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
It seems that starting with the MY2019 Caymans that the performance numbers from Porsche show an increase in the 0-60
times and that’s the year the new oil formulation came into effect yet and as far as I know the exhaust system here in North America was not changed. So if those numbers from Porsche are correct and there is a real performance loss, then it must be because of the switch to the new oil type but why I don’t know.
times and that’s the year the new oil formulation came into effect yet and as far as I know the exhaust system here in North America was not changed. So if those numbers from Porsche are correct and there is a real performance loss, then it must be because of the switch to the new oil type but why I don’t know.
![Stick Out Tongue](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
Last edited by Westcoast; 11-03-2020 at 01:10 PM.
#55
Burning Brakes
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Reviving this thread- I have a question and also some helpful information. Question is below.
Available C40 approved oils in the USA are as follows:
0w-40
Mobil1ESP X3 0W-40
5w-40
Liqui Moly TOP TEC 4110 SAE 5W-40
Motul 8100 X-CLEAN GEN2 5W-40
Note the literature which states that C40 oil is not backwards compatible with vehicles requiring A40.
=====
=====
In advance of a recent service on my 2017 991.2, I specifically requested Porsche-approved 5w-40 for my vehicle. (I do not want to use 0w-40 in a hot climate and Porsche lists both 0w-40 and 5w-40.)
When the Porsche dealer realized they forgot to order the A40-approved Mobil1 5w-40, they used Mercedes OEM Mobil1 5w-40 which does not carry A40 approval. I was advised that my car would still be warrantied and that Porsche NA approves (behind the scenes) of using Mercedes-spec Mobil1 5w-40.
Splitting hairs? Maybe. But I don’t like to argue with a manufacturer. For now I did not make them remove the Mercedes oil.
Thoughts?
Available C40 approved oils in the USA are as follows:
0w-40
Mobil1ESP X3 0W-40
5w-40
Liqui Moly TOP TEC 4110 SAE 5W-40
Motul 8100 X-CLEAN GEN2 5W-40
Note the literature which states that C40 oil is not backwards compatible with vehicles requiring A40.
=====
=====
In advance of a recent service on my 2017 991.2, I specifically requested Porsche-approved 5w-40 for my vehicle. (I do not want to use 0w-40 in a hot climate and Porsche lists both 0w-40 and 5w-40.)
When the Porsche dealer realized they forgot to order the A40-approved Mobil1 5w-40, they used Mercedes OEM Mobil1 5w-40 which does not carry A40 approval. I was advised that my car would still be warrantied and that Porsche NA approves (behind the scenes) of using Mercedes-spec Mobil1 5w-40.
Splitting hairs? Maybe. But I don’t like to argue with a manufacturer. For now I did not make them remove the Mercedes oil.
Thoughts?
Last edited by 348SStb; 04-12-2021 at 10:25 AM.
#56
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Reviving this thread- I have a question and also some helpful information. Question is below.
Available C40 approved oils in the USA are as follows:
0w-40
Mobil1ESP X3 0W-40
5w-40
Liqui Moly TOP TEC 4110 SAE 5W-40
Motul 8100 X-CLEAN GEN2 5W-40
Note the literature which states that C40 oil is not backwards compatible with vehicles requiring A40.
=====
=====
In advance of a recent service on my 2017 991.2, I specifically requested Porsche-approved 5w-40 for my vehicle. (I do not want to use 0w-40 in a hot climate and Porsche lists both 0w-40 and 5w-40.)
When the Porsche dealer realized they forgot to order the A40-approved Mobil1 5w-40, they used Mercedes OEM Mobil1 5w-40 which does not carry A40 approval. I was advised that my car would still be warrantied and that Porsche NA approves (behind the scenes) of using Mercedes-spec Mobil1 5w-40.
Splitting hairs? Maybe. But I don’t like to argue with a manufacturer. For now I did not make them remove the Mercedes oil.
Thoughts?
Available C40 approved oils in the USA are as follows:
0w-40
Mobil1ESP X3 0W-40
5w-40
Liqui Moly TOP TEC 4110 SAE 5W-40
Motul 8100 X-CLEAN GEN2 5W-40
Note the literature which states that C40 oil is not backwards compatible with vehicles requiring A40.
=====
=====
In advance of a recent service on my 2017 991.2, I specifically requested Porsche-approved 5w-40 for my vehicle. (I do not want to use 0w-40 in a hot climate and Porsche lists both 0w-40 and 5w-40.)
When the Porsche dealer realized they forgot to order the A40-approved Mobil1 5w-40, they used Mercedes OEM Mobil1 5w-40 which does not carry A40 approval. I was advised that my car would still be warrantied and that Porsche NA approves (behind the scenes) of using Mercedes-spec Mobil1 5w-40.
Splitting hairs? Maybe. But I don’t like to argue with a manufacturer. For now I did not make them remove the Mercedes oil.
Thoughts?
Having said this, short term (one oil change) is not likely to be an issue, however... now that they have said it to you and you accepted it, will they continue using the MB approved oil in your car and not bother ordering in the officially approved oil?
#57
Burning Brakes
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Hmmmmm, seems like nudge, nudge-wink, wink to me, approved products will have documentation to back them up.
Having said this, short term (one oil change) is not likely to be an issue, however... now that they have said it to you and you accepted it, will they continue using the MB approved oil in your car and not bother ordering in the officially approved oil?
Having said this, short term (one oil change) is not likely to be an issue, however... now that they have said it to you and you accepted it, will they continue using the MB approved oil in your car and not bother ordering in the officially approved oil?
#58
Instructor
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Reviving this thread- I have a question and also some helpful information. Question is below.
Available C40 approved oils in the USA are as follows:
0w-40
Mobil1ESP X3 0W-40
5w-40
Liqui Moly TOP TEC 4110 SAE 5W-40
Motul 8100 X-CLEAN GEN2 5W-40
Note the literature which states that C40 oil is not backwards compatible with vehicles requiring A40.
=====
=====
In advance of a recent service on my 2017 991.2, I specifically requested Porsche-approved 5w-40 for my vehicle. (I do not want to use 0w-40 in a hot climate and Porsche lists both 0w-40 and 5w-40.)
When the Porsche dealer realized they forgot to order the A40-approved Mobil1 5w-40, they used Mercedes OEM Mobil1 5w-40 which does not carry A40 approval. I was advised that my car would still be warrantied and that Porsche NA approves (behind the scenes) of using Mercedes-spec Mobil1 5w-40.
Splitting hairs? Maybe. But I don’t like to argue with a manufacturer. For now I did not make them remove the Mercedes oil.
Thoughts?
Available C40 approved oils in the USA are as follows:
0w-40
Mobil1ESP X3 0W-40
5w-40
Liqui Moly TOP TEC 4110 SAE 5W-40
Motul 8100 X-CLEAN GEN2 5W-40
Note the literature which states that C40 oil is not backwards compatible with vehicles requiring A40.
=====
=====
In advance of a recent service on my 2017 991.2, I specifically requested Porsche-approved 5w-40 for my vehicle. (I do not want to use 0w-40 in a hot climate and Porsche lists both 0w-40 and 5w-40.)
When the Porsche dealer realized they forgot to order the A40-approved Mobil1 5w-40, they used Mercedes OEM Mobil1 5w-40 which does not carry A40 approval. I was advised that my car would still be warrantied and that Porsche NA approves (behind the scenes) of using Mercedes-spec Mobil1 5w-40.
Splitting hairs? Maybe. But I don’t like to argue with a manufacturer. For now I did not make them remove the Mercedes oil.
Thoughts?
You are asking whether it is ok to use Merc Mobil1 where A40 is specified by Porsche.
Now for people interested in C40 5W-40 oils, here is the latest list from Volkswagen (also includes the 0W-40 oils; note VW 511 00 is equivalent to Porsche C40).
#59
Burning Brakes
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Strictly, the topic of this thread is whether it is ok to use A40 oil where C40 is specified by Porsche, and where to source C40.
You are asking whether it is ok to use Merc Mobil1 where A40 is specified by Porsche.
Now for people interested in C40 5W-40 oils, here is the latest list from Volkswagen (also includes the 0W-40 oils; note VW 511 00 is equivalent to Porsche C40).
You are asking whether it is ok to use Merc Mobil1 where A40 is specified by Porsche.
Now for people interested in C40 5W-40 oils, here is the latest list from Volkswagen (also includes the 0W-40 oils; note VW 511 00 is equivalent to Porsche C40).
Since you didn’t figure this out in your own — I decided rather than start another oil thread, I thought I would make a contribution and also ask a question.
Thanks for not answering my question, by the way. On the other hand, you win the award for best spreadsheet maker.
Last edited by 348SStb; 04-13-2021 at 12:14 AM.
#60
Pro
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Strictly, the topic of this thread is whether it is ok to use A40 oil where C40 is specified by Porsche, and where to source C40.
You are asking whether it is ok to use Merc Mobil1 where A40 is specified by Porsche.
Now for people interested in C40 5W-40 oils, here is the latest list from Volkswagen (also includes the 0W-40 oils; note VW 511 00 is equivalent to Porsche C40).
You are asking whether it is ok to use Merc Mobil1 where A40 is specified by Porsche.
Now for people interested in C40 5W-40 oils, here is the latest list from Volkswagen (also includes the 0W-40 oils; note VW 511 00 is equivalent to Porsche C40).