A40 vs C40 Approved Motor Oil
07-19-2019, 01:42 AM
#17
As I was at my dealer for the frunk structural reinforcement recall last Friday, I took the opportunity to speak with a parts person and the service manager.
The parts person confirmed for me that the dealership purchases the C40 oil from Mobil in bulk packaging for use in vehicle servicing at the dealership and that they do not offer the C4 oil for retail purchase. The websites of most Porsche dealerships with online part sales that I have checked do not recognize the Porsche part number for the one-liter bottle of the C4 oil. As Sonnen Porsche is one of few online sellers that do list the oil on their website, it is reasonable to expect that they have purchased the oil from a European source independent of the Porsche parts system.
I asked the service manager to look into the lack of availability of the C4 oil in retail packaging. I also asked him if he would provide me with a copy of the 33/18 technical bulletin. I received an email reply this morning. In it he stated that he and their parts manager are working with both Porsche and Mobil to figure out how to get retail-packaged C4 oil available at their dealership. He also included the attached document in response to my request for the 33/18 bulletin.
It is my expectation that retail-packaged C4 oil will not be available at my dealership (and probably most dealerships) anytime soon, so I will be purchasing it from an online source.
The parts person confirmed for me that the dealership purchases the C40 oil from Mobil in bulk packaging for use in vehicle servicing at the dealership and that they do not offer the C4 oil for retail purchase. The websites of most Porsche dealerships with online part sales that I have checked do not recognize the Porsche part number for the one-liter bottle of the C4 oil. As Sonnen Porsche is one of few online sellers that do list the oil on their website, it is reasonable to expect that they have purchased the oil from a European source independent of the Porsche parts system.
I asked the service manager to look into the lack of availability of the C4 oil in retail packaging. I also asked him if he would provide me with a copy of the 33/18 technical bulletin. I received an email reply this morning. In it he stated that he and their parts manager are working with both Porsche and Mobil to figure out how to get retail-packaged C4 oil available at their dealership. He also included the attached document in response to my request for the 33/18 bulletin.
It is my expectation that retail-packaged C4 oil will not be available at my dealership (and probably most dealerships) anytime soon, so I will be purchasing it from an online source.
11-02-2019, 05:25 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
I purchased a 2019 718 GT4 Clubsport Competition and was told by Porsche that the X3 ESP oil was hard to find. They said to use the good old European Formula 0W-40 that I have been using for years. I found the ESP 0W-40 oil, but it does not say X3 on the bottle so I assume that it is not C40 spec. I will look at it when it comes. Pretty sure the race car doesn't have an exhaust filter.....
01-18-2020, 12:18 PM
#19
Three Wheelin'
Unfortunately, it is often the case that the oils designed to protect the longevity of the emissions equipment are less protective of the motor. The additives that protect the motor like Zinc and Phosphorous (ZDDP) harm the emissions gear. Since the emissions equipment has an 8 -year warranty and the engine only 4 before it’s the owner’s problem, draw your own conclusion...
Oddly, the only other car using this 0W-40 ESP that I am aware of is the Corvette... which is neither a turbo or a direct injection car... I am as confused as anyone on this, but the spec sheet linked above clearly shows Porsche deliberately chasing to use C40 on NON-GPF cars.. so I am going to (for peace of mind) switch back until at least my warranty ends.
01-18-2020, 02:40 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
I thought and feared the same, so I decided to go to a Motul 0w-40 SN+ oil, only to confirm and find out that the ESP isn't just so they can protect the GPF... according to this thread https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-a40-oils.html. there is another reason the ESP is becoming the recommended oil... something called LSPI ... Low Speed Pre-Iginition... which is associated with high compression, direct injection turbo engines like we have in the 718 and my 992.. apparently the ESP formulation has a lot less calcium and ZDDP which both have been shown to increase the chance of LSPI... so I literally put the Motul in at my 1000 mile break in oil change, only to have it taken out 200 miles later and replaced with Mobil 1 ESP...
Oddly, the only other car using this 0W-40 ESP that I am aware of is the Corvette... which is neither a turbo or a direct injection car... I am as confused as anyone on this, but the spec sheet linked above clearly shows Porsche deliberately chasing to use C40 on NON-GPF cars.. so I am going to (for peace of mind) switch back until at least my warranty ends.
Oddly, the only other car using this 0W-40 ESP that I am aware of is the Corvette... which is neither a turbo or a direct injection car... I am as confused as anyone on this, but the spec sheet linked above clearly shows Porsche deliberately chasing to use C40 on NON-GPF cars.. so I am going to (for peace of mind) switch back until at least my warranty ends.
01-18-2020, 06:58 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
I don't know about X3.. not sure if that branding is gone as the 0W-40 ESP is a C40 oil and that is what our spec calls for.. its what my dealer actually sells.
01-18-2020, 07:52 PM
#22
This is from the Mobil 1 site and interesting as my 2018 base 718 lists A40 in the book....wonder why this would not be backwards compatible if it had other benefits other than the GPF?
• Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 can only be used in the vehicles for which it is approved. It is not backward compatible with vehicle engines requiring an A40, C30 or C20 . ***
Applications
Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 is recommended for high-performance engines requiring GPFs (gasoline particulate filters).• Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 can only be used in the vehicles for which it is approved. It is not backward compatible with vehicle engines requiring an A40, C30 or C20 . ***
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01-18-2020, 08:00 PM
#23
Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W 40
Mobil Passenger-Vehicle-Lube , RomaniaAdvanced Full Synthetic Engine Oil
Product Description
Mobil 1™ ESP X3 0W-40 is an advanced full synthetic engine oil specifically designed to provide outstanding performance for high powered engines, providing outstanding engine cleanliness, wear protection, strong durability and advanced fuel economy*. Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 is our latest technology developed in cooperation with Porsche, one of our key European Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs). Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 has been expertly engineered to help prolong the life in new emerging gasoline powered European vehicles.*compared to our Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 / Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30
Features and Benefits
Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 is made with a proprietary blend of leading edge components formulated to be fully compatible with the latest Gasoline Particulate filters (GPF's). Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 has been designed to help deliver outstanding performance and protection in conjunction with advanced fuel economy benefits. Key features and potential benefits include:**Based on industry and OEM standard engine tests
Features
Advantages and Potential Benefits
Active cleaning agents
Helps to prevent the buildup of harmful deposits to enable long and clean engine life**
Provides outstanding engine cleanliness and sludge control
Outstanding high-temperature thermaland oxidation stability
Helps to reduce oil aging for protection throughout your oil drain interval
Enhanced frictional properties
Provides fuel economy improvement versus Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30
Excellent low temperature capabilities
Quick cold weather performance to help provide protection at start-up
Wear protection
Provides outstanding wear protection**
Applications
Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 is recommended for high-performance engines requiring GPFs (gasoline particulate filters).• Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 can only be used in the vehicles for which it is approved. It is not backward compatible with vehicle engines requiring an A40, C30 or C20 . ***
*** Always consult the owner's manual of the vehicle for the manufacturer's recommended viscosity grade and specifications
Specifications and Approvals
This product has the following approvals:PORSCHE C40
MB 229.31
MB 229.51
MB 229.52
GM dexos2
VW 511 00
This product meets or exceeds the requirements of:
ACEA C3
FIAT FIAT 9.55535-S2
API SN Engine Test Requirements
Properties and Specifications
PropertyGrade
SAE 0W-40
Density @ 15.6 C, g/ml, ASTM D4052
0.846
Flash Point, Cleveland Open Cup, °C, ASTM D92
230
Hi-Temp Hi-Shear Viscosity @ 150 C 1x10(6) sec(-1), mPa.s, ASTM D4683
3.8
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100 C, mm2/s, ASTM D445
14.1
Pour Point, °C, ASTM D97
-48
Viscosity Index, ASTM D2270
204
Health and safety
Health and Safety recommendations for this product can be found on the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) @ http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/psims/psims.aspxAll trademarks used herein are trademarks or registered trademarks of Exxon Mobil Corporation or one of its subsidiaries unless indicated otherwise.
01-2020.
Typical Properties are typical of those obtained with normal production tolerance and do not constitute a specification. Variations that do not affect product performance are to be expected during normal manufacture and at different blending locations. The information contained herein is subject to change without notice. All products may not be available locally. For more information, contact your local ExxonMobil contact or visit www.exxonmobil.com
ExxonMobil is comprised of numerous affiliates and subsidiaries, many with names that include Esso, Mobil, or ExxonMobil. Nothing in this document is intended to override or supersede the corporate separateness of local entities. Responsibility for local action and accountability remains with the local ExxonMobil-affiliate entities.
01-18-2020, 09:48 PM
#24
So, looking at all of this it appears if you have a 718 made prior to MY 2019 you use the A40 (according to the Porsche PDF provided)...if after that date the C40 as they probably have the particulate filter in place the earlier models do not....and if in question I'd refer to the manual provided with your 718 as it should be appropriate to the manufacturing date.
Make sense?
Make sense?
01-18-2020, 10:07 PM
#25
Three Wheelin'
So, looking at all of this it appears if you have a 718 made prior to MY 2019 you use the A40 (according to the Porsche PDF provided)...if after that date the C40 as they probably have the particulate filter in place the earlier models do not....and if in question I'd refer to the manual provided with your 718 as it should be appropriate to the manufacturing date.
Make sense?
Make sense?
01-18-2020, 10:15 PM
#26
...so you have said but the Porsche compatibility chart indicates what I just said...A40 for the earlier models (pre 2019) is fine.
The issue may be something else....the 0-60 times for the newer Particulate filter 718's are 1/2 second slower (than the older models) as listed by Porsche so the problem may be a bit of starvation/lean fuel in the newer vehicles where deposits may cause more of an issue.
from another site post..new owner
"The USA Cayman S now lists a 0-60 manual time of 5.0 seconds (base at 5.6 seconds) – is that due to the particulate filter? So is that stupid thing now on my coming USA model despite the USA not (yet) mandating such nonsense? So a half second slower due to some Euro regulations? I hate government."
The issue may be something else....the 0-60 times for the newer Particulate filter 718's are 1/2 second slower (than the older models) as listed by Porsche so the problem may be a bit of starvation/lean fuel in the newer vehicles where deposits may cause more of an issue.
from another site post..new owner
"The USA Cayman S now lists a 0-60 manual time of 5.0 seconds (base at 5.6 seconds) – is that due to the particulate filter? So is that stupid thing now on my coming USA model despite the USA not (yet) mandating such nonsense? So a half second slower due to some Euro regulations? I hate government."
01-18-2020, 10:29 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
...so you have said but the Porsche compatibility chart indicates what I just said...A40 for the earlier models (pre 2019) is fine.
The issue may be something else....the 0-60 times for the newer Particulate filter 718's are 1/2 second slower (than the older models) as listed by Porsche so the problem may be a bit of starvation/lean fuel in the newer vehicles where deposits may cause more of an issue.
from another site post..new owner
"The USA Cayman S now lists a 0-60 manual time of 5.0 seconds (base at 5.6 seconds) – is that due to the particulate filter? So is that stupid thing now on my coming USA model despite the USA not (yet) mandating such nonsense? So a half second slower due to some Euro regulations? I hate government."
The issue may be something else....the 0-60 times for the newer Particulate filter 718's are 1/2 second slower (than the older models) as listed by Porsche so the problem may be a bit of starvation/lean fuel in the newer vehicles where deposits may cause more of an issue.
from another site post..new owner
"The USA Cayman S now lists a 0-60 manual time of 5.0 seconds (base at 5.6 seconds) – is that due to the particulate filter? So is that stupid thing now on my coming USA model despite the USA not (yet) mandating such nonsense? So a half second slower due to some Euro regulations? I hate government."
01-18-2020, 10:48 PM
#28
I am referring to the PDF provided earlier by another..... it shows the Cayman/718's using the C40 after 2019.....this being a 718 Forum I thought that relevant.
My guess as to the slower speed rating related to the filter is simply that...and to the cause of a possible leaner mix at low speed/low load....but it isn't a bad guess.
My guess as to the slower speed rating related to the filter is simply that...and to the cause of a possible leaner mix at low speed/low load....but it isn't a bad guess.
01-18-2020, 10:54 PM
#29
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01-19-2020, 12:08 AM
#30
The possible restriction of that new gas filter 'may' be the culprit in the slower timed speeds...if so, it is simply less fuel delivered in a given time due to simply adding this restriction and not changing all of the other systems.
They already run lean and lean is a hot intake area/piston head/valves etc.......any deposits can ignite the charge in detonation mode...so, if under low speed, low load...low fuel delivery they are on the edge it appears so are 'adding' a low deposit creating oil to increase the margin of error.
This is my guess only based upon very limited input...but not unreasonable.
Or, it could be Porsche playing with the figures for their own reason but can't figure out why they'd want the older years of the same model to be rated faster?
Last edited by Reiver; 01-19-2020 at 12:33 AM.