Bob Rouleau

Dave, while not in your league as a coach, one of the most common mistakes I see (in addition to the ones you mentioned) is the failure to look into the corner early, i.e while braking, freeze your hands on the wheel, turn your head and look into the corner, once you "see" it, let the car turn. My experience has been that it prevents over-braking and point to point driving. Smooth arcs are always faster. FWIW

Veloce Raptor

Actually, that is a fantastic point. Looking where they're going, not where they want to go.

On the point to point topic, that is another great observation, Bob. Many folks seem to drive "curb to curb", rather then allowing the car to flow as you say.

sig_a

I often hear instructors use the phrase "rotate the car", or "getting the car to rotate" as a turning technique in slow, off camber corners. I interpret this to mean a series of short, controlled oversteer maneuvers where one counter-steers just enough to remain in control. A sawing motion at the steering wheel, in other words.

Is my interpretation correct, and is the technique the best way around tight, slow corners?

Thanks.

ace996

Gentlemen,
First, great job with this thread...it is a wonderful idea and is turning out to be even better in execution. I'm not competing now, have thought about it, but still try to be the "best me" I can be for my fellow drivers and students (I instruct for NASANE). Having a place to ask those with not only the driving experience but also the instructional experience is just great, thanks so much.

A bit over 10 years ago I was on two wheels and looking to start my amateur racing career...on my way to being the next Carl Fogarty...and it was suggested by someone that I buy and study, until the pages crumbled and turned to dust, a book called "Twist of the Wrist". That book literally changed everything about my time on and off a motorcycle. It changed the way I drove a car and even how I pushed a shopping cart around the supermarket...

I never did become World Superbike champ....shared a practice session with a young kid at NHIS at Nationals named Eric Bostrom. He was on a 600, I was on my Duc996...let's just say I realized then that I did not have a similar mutant ability to bend physics and time/space, and that my family didn't really need to learn the lesson of bankruptcy to prove it.

I've never forgotten the lessons learned from "Twist of the Wrist", and the books that folowed it, but wish that I could find a similar book for this 6GT3 that has done a phenomenal job of filling the void of my past Ducati. I've gone through 8 cars in as many years and none have made the emotional and visceral impression that this "P-car" has in only 30 mins on track. I can tell it's a different beast than all those others and that it requires me to pilot it differently to find it's true potential.

So...and sorry about the rambling...is there a "Twist of the Wrist" for the Porsche???

Thanks so much,
TomK

winders

Tom,

Keith Code is revered by some and despised by more in the motorcycle racing community. There is some good stuff in his "Twist of the Wrist" series....but too much crap to filter through.

I would look at books like "Going Faster!" and "Think Fast".

Scott

Veloce Raptor

Sig, speaking only for myself, that is not how I would define that phrase. Rather, to me, it means decisively turning the car in to start the rear of the car on the rotational arc, which allows the steering to be straightened sooner than one would think, which has distinct advantages for stability in low speed and especially off camber corners. Sure, there is often one or more small corrections especially near or at track out. But sawing the wheel on purpose? Eh....not for me. Remember, the FRONT tires change the car's direction, the REAR tires (modulated by both gas & brake pedals) actually steer the car. Hope that made sense. Another thing to think about in slower tight corners is finding ways to sort of pre-position the attitude of the car at entry to complement the direction of the corner, for example coming in at a slight bend to the right for a tight right hander. This can often help the car work better when it actually has to turn around the apex.

Tom, thanks for the kind words, and for a bit about your experience. I don't know the "Twist" books nor what makes them so special. Scott makes a good point about the Going Faster series, and there are others almost too numerous to mention.

JR944

Whatever one thinks about the rest of Keith Code's books, I think his $1 worth of concentration chapter is worthwhile for everyone to read. It's been a long time, but hope I'm remembering correctly....

Basically, he says that each of us have a finite "amount" of conscious concentration available to perform a task (such as driving or riding the motorcycle). As our skill and experience progress, we are able to perform some tasks unconsciously leaving more available thought process for additional/more difficult "stuff"

I use a version of this explanation with my coaching clients, especially as they are making a decision on transition from DE to wheel to wheel racing. I tell them that if they can run respectable (not lap record, but ball park of competitive race times) while discussing perhaps the last book they read, or nice dinner they had, then they have enough "excess" thought capacity available to be succesful in a race environment. In my opinion, too many people make the transition to wheel to wheel racing before becoming an "unconscious competent" driver without the added factors involved in a wheel to wheel race.

Hope that makes sense and adds some value to the discussion. Thanks to VR for starting this thread. Very worthwhile, IMO.

Joe

Bob Rouleau

Two things:

Rotate the car - experienced drivers will use weight transfer to overcome understeer. Trail braking into slow corners in a 911 is one example, our cars tend to understeer in slow speed (tight) corners. Using the brakes to transfer weight to the front, i.e., making the back end lighter overcomes the tendency to push. In faster corners, it is sometimes useful to lift the throttle to give the front end more grip at turn-in. Modulating the throttle even mid turn is a useful technique to get the car on the right line, often called throttle steering. Dave basically said this but I'm adding some detail which I hope is not superfluous.

Concentration: Joe, one of the key tests we use for potential candidates for our Instructor Training program is the ability to lap at speed while engaging the passenger (an Instructor Mentor) in conversation on any subject all the way around. It is not surprising that many good drivers struggle with this.

In most programs we describe the progress of an adult student from"

Unconscious Incompetent - doesn't know what he doesn't know

Conscious Incompetent - knows he doesn't know it all

Unconscious Competent - can do it without having to think hard about it. This person is an Instructor Candidate and the kind of racer that can focus on race-craft The driving part is relegated to the subconscious.

Regards,

utkinpol

there are generally 2 ways to change car`s direction.
first way to use your front axle directly when you turn wheels to certain angle and create a force on front axle that pushes front of a car where you want it to go. that is how we drive on a street.

when you go on any road course close to 10/10 of maximum available traction you have slightly different things going on. you approach a corner and set on your front axle toward anticipated entry point. here you need to know what to expect from tires - you need to set front wheels to maintain optimal slip angle for front tires and also maintain coefficient of traction within its max value depending of tires temperature, speed, downforce from your suspension and other factors. this 'optimal angle' is usually a bit less than amount required to make car turn by 'regular way' but if you will turn wheels in too much then you will exceed traction limit, contact patch will overheat and your front will slide off. overall idea to be 'fast' is to drive car at maximum available traction on both axles (considering required condition for car to be properly tuned with suspension setup that actually allows you to do such stunts).

that is why essentially instructors train new drivers to 'set steering' to certain angle and keep it firm unchanged while in a corner. so you do set your turn-in steering angle essentially to maintain optimal slip angle for front axle tires to get at their maximum grip. then your goal is to maintain this grip (not a steering angle, but the GRIP) so you play with throttle to add or reduce amount of torque at rear alxe to rotate your car as steering is,well, kinda not used for that anymore. sounds a bit counterintuitive but i donot know how to put it in other words.

think of that from force vectors perspective - front axle force vector pushes front axle back at angle of your tires slip angle degree.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slip_angle

rear axle does not have steering mechanisms so it has a force vector pointed along car frame in the opposite direction as you add on throttle.

that creates a rotation force and that is how you essentially 'steer' your car when you are driving at maximum traction limit and no longer can use steering alone to dictate direction of your turn - as if you turn your steering wheel more toward the way where you want to go you will exceed amount of traction on front tire contact patch and front axle will 'dive in' and you will projectile out.
in reality car will be 'diving in' anyway constantly when you approach 10/10 as track surface is uneven - and that is why you see drivers 'sawing' steering wheel so vigorously - your front looses traction, you quickly jerk wheel into opposite way to recover slip angle and when it bites in again you return to original position. what you also should be aware of - before doing that on a track you should realise that any unexpected slippage on a track under any of your 4 contact patches (water, oil, sand, marbles) when you go close to 10/10 may/will unsettle you severely. you need to practice how to control car in a spin, how to sense when spin begins and have a spinal cord reflexes to 'sense' when you still can correct and save car out of spin and when it is too late. and none of that can be learned on a track really. but without having this safety skill it may end up nasty for you when you`ll feel for a first time that your car is not doing what you expect it to do at all. and PCA does not teach any of that.

Most of those concepts would get clear enough if one would try at least once to do oval drifting during winter time - that is a bit extreme but in reality driving on ice/snow is close enough to what happens when you go 10/10 on dry hot asphalt on overheated tires close to melting point. you have to be careful of how fast you go, how much heat your tires get in during braking to estimate how much grip you still got left for a corner and balance amount of sliding with amount of rolling to cool tires down.

AudiOn19s

Tom,
I'm with you. Haven't even owned a bike in 5 years after a T1 crash at Mid Ohio however Keith Code's books are at the top of the list of reading materials every season. Just got back from vacation as a matter of fact and that was the only book I took with us. I think his approach to contact patch management and some of the mental aspects that you really need to focus on while on a bike really hit home and aren't focused on enouh in the car books.

Andy

Veloce Raptor

^^^^ this ^^^^

Larry Herman

Bob, can I add "Conscious Competent" to your list? It is the evolution of a driver from knowing that they lack the knowledge to actually learning and understanding the craft. They still have to think about what they are doing when out on the track, and it requires the concentration that we are talking about, but they are conpetent and quite fast. Many DE drivers seem to stay in this stage. The talented racer enters the 4th stage, as it requires most of his/her concentraction to focus on strategy and passing. The driving just seems to happen automatically; on autopilot.

Ask anyone in that stage where they brake, and the answer will probably be "I don't know". And its not a smart-assed answer, they just brake when it looks right. The information goes right from the eyes through the cerebellum and out to the leg muscles. It bypasses the cerebrum, and conscious thought entirely. It is operating a car (or any sport) on the highest plain.

ace996

Guys, like his writings or not, there's no denying that to ride (or drive) at the limit requires "the next step". His books did a great job of explaining or introducing me to "the next step".

From having enough "cents" left whilst sliding through a turn, to really opening up my eyes to "reference points", to introducing me to seeing going fast/faster as a science...and that one needs to take an approach of a student of all aspects of riding/driving...I can't believe how it helped me. I couldn't unlearn that stuff if I wanted - it changed my approach/perspective profoundly.

Now, there must be a book dealing with the specific science of driving a "911" the proper way...or at least to point me in the right direction. I've always driven my cars with a back-end flavor of a motorcycle and I think that is what helped me with the GT3 when I had it on track...felt very comfortable. But in order to find the car's, and more importantly my own, potential, I think some different tweaks are required...yes?

Thanks,
TomK

winders

You could try "Porsche High-Performance Driving Handbook" by Vic Elford...

Scott

Bob Rouleau

Larry - thanks, in my haste I left that one out