ASK THE COACH
06-11-2011, 10:03 AM
#273
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.....within 1 sec or less is no problem though assuming open track....usually 1 to 6 10ths between laps. I'm thinking I will go karting some to help w/ the time off from the track. There is a good karting track about 15 mins away I've only been to a few times.
06-11-2011, 06:55 PM
#274
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Thread Starter
Whew....been coaching all day at Sebring, quite hot. Yes, karting is excellent if it is available to you, not only for improving driving skills, but also for improving yoru mental skills. Things come up so much faster on karts, and you have to be so much more on top of what the vehicle is telling you each millisecond. I will be at VIR for a full week starting July 4th, and I plan to get some karting in while I am there!
06-13-2011, 12:14 PM
#277
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My first race in a left shift car was at Memphis Motorsports Park a few decades ago. On the second row and feeling good.
Green flag waves, we all take off. I can't hear my car, the exhaust note is drowned out by the cars around me...
All of a sudden, everyone pulls ahead. People behind start passing.
I look down and the tach is off the scale. OOPS...
I reach out to pull the shifter into the next gear and...
The right door opens!
I had pulled back on the door handle, instead of the shifter... Holy $@#!
Close the door, shift the car with my LEFT hand and make back places to finish where I started...
Whew.... Glad it wasn't my car.
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-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
06-13-2011, 12:21 PM
#278
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+1
The two conditions where I'm most likely to short shift .... so that I can carry a gear all the way through a sweeper rather than have to shift while the car is still loaded. ... it's usually a turn where I would hit redline right around track-out. T2-1 at TWS going CW is a perfect example of that.
The two conditions where I'm most likely to short shift .... so that I can carry a gear all the way through a sweeper rather than have to shift while the car is still loaded. ... it's usually a turn where I would hit redline right around track-out. T2-1 at TWS going CW is a perfect example of that.
Conclusion: Short shifting helped me improve lap times using my old line. But changing my line allowed WOT in 3rd for more of the turn, and perfectly delayed the upshift to 4th until pointed in straight line. You saw me drive this line on Saturday of course, but on Sunday I additionally ran with traction control off and logged a few 1:57's. OT: that's a 4 - 5 second improvement in just 3 track days - VR, Globe, Hugh... thanks!
Not my best laps from either event, but at the 1:40 mark, these illustrate the difference between short shifting to 4th at the beginning of T2 vs. holding 3rd until the end of T1:
May - short shift 3rd to 4th
June - No short shifting
06-13-2011, 02:37 PM
#279
The Penguin King
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Before you gave me this same advice back in May, I was running CW around 2:01 to 2:02. Short shifting felt immediately more comfortable, and I was finally able tackle T2-1 CW with more confidence than before, and break 2:00 on a regular basis. However, this past weekend, when Hugh showed me where to initially displace the apex and then hug the grass all the way up to the pit lane wall in 3rd, my lap times fell consistently to 1:58.
Conclusion: Short shifting helped me improve lap times using my old line. But changing my line allowed WOT in 3rd for more of the turn, and perfectly delayed the upshift to 4th until pointed in straight line. You saw me drive this line on Saturday of course, but on Sunday I additionally ran with traction control off and logged a few 1:57's. OT: that's a 4 - 5 second improvement in just 3 track days - VR, Globe, Hugh... thanks!
Not my best laps from either event, but at the 1:40 mark, these illustrate the difference between short shifting to 4th at the beginning of T2 vs. holding 3rd until the end of T1:
May - short shift 3rd to 4th
June - No short shifting
Conclusion: Short shifting helped me improve lap times using my old line. But changing my line allowed WOT in 3rd for more of the turn, and perfectly delayed the upshift to 4th until pointed in straight line. You saw me drive this line on Saturday of course, but on Sunday I additionally ran with traction control off and logged a few 1:57's. OT: that's a 4 - 5 second improvement in just 3 track days - VR, Globe, Hugh... thanks!
Not my best laps from either event, but at the 1:40 mark, these illustrate the difference between short shifting to 4th at the beginning of T2 vs. holding 3rd until the end of T1:
May - short shift 3rd to 4th
June - No short shifting
06-13-2011, 05:16 PM
#280
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Thread Starter
Mike...how was the view of the T11 apex from all the way over there?
Russell, very nice!!! You are actually turning in to 6 a bit late. It is making you apex late, which is whhy you had to adjust steering & modulate gas between 6 & 5. Also, IMO you can trail bake a bit more into 15, and the car won't be pointed so much away from the apex. As for 2-1, Hugh & I do a similar line. I come in a bit closer to 2 only because my car is a bit lighter than the GT3's you guys have, and significantly less powerfuul, and I benefit (according to data) from driving fewer feet there.
Russell, very nice!!! You are actually turning in to 6 a bit late. It is making you apex late, which is whhy you had to adjust steering & modulate gas between 6 & 5. Also, IMO you can trail bake a bit more into 15, and the car won't be pointed so much away from the apex. As for 2-1, Hugh & I do a similar line. I come in a bit closer to 2 only because my car is a bit lighter than the GT3's you guys have, and significantly less powerfuul, and I benefit (according to data) from driving fewer feet there.
06-13-2011, 05:53 PM
#281
The Penguin King
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Mike...how was the view of the T11 apex from all the way over there?
Russell, very nice!!! You are actually turning in to 6 a bit late. It is making you apex late, which is whhy you had to adjust steering & modulate gas between 6 & 5. Also, IMO you can trail bake a bit more into 15, and the car won't be pointed so much away from the apex. As for 2-1, Hugh & I do a similar line. I come in a bit closer to 2 only because my car is a bit lighter than the GT3's you guys have, and significantly less powerfuul, and I benefit (according to data) from driving fewer feet there.
Russell, very nice!!! You are actually turning in to 6 a bit late. It is making you apex late, which is whhy you had to adjust steering & modulate gas between 6 & 5. Also, IMO you can trail bake a bit more into 15, and the car won't be pointed so much away from the apex. As for 2-1, Hugh & I do a similar line. I come in a bit closer to 2 only because my car is a bit lighter than the GT3's you guys have, and significantly less powerfuul, and I benefit (according to data) from driving fewer feet there.
06-13-2011, 09:39 PM
#282
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Yeah, that T6 - T5 line was something Hugh suggested I try in order be at mid track coming in to T4. Perhaps I'm not quick enough getting to T4 to get the same benefit that Hugh does with that late apex. I ended up going back to my old T6/T5 line for comfort reasons, and used that line on my quickest lap of the weekend.
06-13-2011, 10:59 PM
#283
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
IMO you can get to 6 earlier, use one steering input, which allows more throttle commitment, and you'll end up where he did entering 4. The key is the amount of throttle. More throttle gives you a later apex at 5. 
If he was using more throttle there, doing that line, he'd go off track. Catch what I am hinting at here?
If he was using more throttle there, doing that line, he'd go off track. Catch what I am hinting at here?
06-14-2011, 12:23 AM
#284
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IMO you can get to 6 earlier, use one steering input, which allows more throttle commitment, and you'll end up where he did entering 4. The key is the amount of throttle. More throttle gives you a later apex at 5. If he was using more throttle there, doing that line, he'd go off track. Catch what I am hinting at here?
If he was using more throttle there, doing that line, he'd go off track. Catch what I am hinting at here? Sorry, don't you have any multiple choice tests?
Actually, I get it all, with the exception of the last part (unless by "more throttle" you mean "longer on the throttle"). When using his line in T6/T5, I was never at WOT until after I had modulated the throttle for what? 3 seconds? But when using my old line, I was WOT at T6 apex, and modulated only for a fraction of a second.
See it here at the 1:00 mark: TWS CW 1:57.4 (poor GPS signal, so ignore the velocity and g data; timer data is OK). FWIW, this is also my 1:57 lap... almost ran out of track in T15; banged the curb of T13; smooth only thru the carousel, caught the edge of the grass going up to T9, felt like half a car width wide on T4 track out before getting in back in line. Felt really ragged, but it was fun
06-14-2011, 09:06 AM
#285
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Uh...umm... that T6/T5 is not that different from T2/T1???
Sorry, don't you have any multiple choice tests?
Actually, I get it all, with the exception of the last part (unless by "more throttle" you mean "longer on the throttle"). When using his line in T6/T5, I was never at WOT until after I had modulated the throttle for what? 3 seconds? But when using my old line, I was WOT at T6 apex, and modulated only for a fraction of a second.
See it here at the 1:00 mark: TWS CW 1:57.4 (poor GPS signal, so ignore the velocity and g data; timer data is OK). FWIW, this is also my 1:57 lap... almost ran out of track in T15; banged the curb of T13; smooth only thru the carousel, caught the edge of the grass going up to T9, felt like half a car width wide on T4 track out before getting in back in line. Felt really ragged, but it was fun
Sorry, don't you have any multiple choice tests?
Actually, I get it all, with the exception of the last part (unless by "more throttle" you mean "longer on the throttle"). When using his line in T6/T5, I was never at WOT until after I had modulated the throttle for what? 3 seconds? But when using my old line, I was WOT at T6 apex, and modulated only for a fraction of a second.
See it here at the 1:00 mark: TWS CW 1:57.4 (poor GPS signal, so ignore the velocity and g data; timer data is OK). FWIW, this is also my 1:57 lap... almost ran out of track in T15; banged the curb of T13; smooth only thru the carousel, caught the edge of the grass going up to T9, felt like half a car width wide on T4 track out before getting in back in line. Felt really ragged, but it was fun
You had at least 3' of extra room on your left in 15.
13, yeah, that was a solid curb hit but somewhat common there. More concerning is missing the apex at 12. Get all the way to the curb, it's safer and faster.
Carousel was really really nice, although I still prefer an earlier, shallower turn in for 11 to carry more speed in, but that's just me.
9 was spot on, actually, as was 8.
Need more throttle between 8 & 7...even if it's only 50%.
The thing I meant with 6/5 is that if you carry lots of speed in, and turn in (and apex 6) slightly earlier than you were doing, you'll trail brake more or less to the 6 apex, then (if your entry speed is really good) you'll pause briefly as the car takes its set between the 6 apex and track out, then roll to gas once (and WOT) all the way to 4. This is the opportunity most folks miss. They are so eager to get to gas, they artificially slow the entry, and then because the car hasn't really taken a set, and their eagerness to get to gas has liftted the nose (a very common 911 trait, which causes sudden understeer) and then they have to modulate gas for quite a ways before the car is ready for WOT.
EDIT: watch this from May, the lap starting around 3:50. Ignore my entries into 15...I was experimenting with a relatively low line with some different rebound settings in the rear, turned out to be sub-optimal.
