Factory sunroof delete TT
01-26-2013, 02:41 AM
#47
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Ok, exactly HOW much weight is it? How much does it actually change the cars moments and handling? I have not seen any numbers, you still need the sheet metal and some internal bracing so it's what? 5-10 lbs?
I am asking because I see statements like this all the time but we really should see if we can find the actual measurable facts and use those to make a conclusion. I see the argument on height gains for helmet clearances for sure, or that people like the aesthetics of a smooth roof...
Cheers,
Mike
I am asking because I see statements like this all the time but we really should see if we can find the actual measurable facts and use those to make a conclusion. I see the argument on height gains for helmet clearances for sure, or that people like the aesthetics of a smooth roof...
Cheers,
Mike
01-26-2013, 11:06 AM
#48
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Ok, exactly HOW much weight is it? How much does it actually change the cars moments and handling? I have not seen any numbers, you still need the sheet metal and some internal bracing so it's what? 5-10 lbs?
I am asking because I see statements like this all the time but we really should see if we can find the actual measurable facts and use those to make a conclusion. I see the argument on height gains for helmet clearances for sure, or that people like the aesthetics of a smooth roof...
Cheers,
Mike
I am asking because I see statements like this all the time but we really should see if we can find the actual measurable facts and use those to make a conclusion. I see the argument on height gains for helmet clearances for sure, or that people like the aesthetics of a smooth roof...
Cheers,
Mike
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-turb...-progress.html
01-26-2013, 11:50 AM
#49
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I'd much rather NOT to have a sunroof on my 993 (or any 911, for that matter).... I've owned my car since May of last year & haven't opened it once. Had I been old enough to order one back in 96/97, I would not have checked the sunroof option box.
I love the clean & smooth contour of a 911 roof - the sunroof completely interrupts that.
I love the clean & smooth contour of a 911 roof - the sunroof completely interrupts that.
01-26-2013, 12:53 PM
#51
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From the link above that's net roughly 11kilos/24lbs of superfluous weight . . . my goodness. Wait until it might start leaking. The factory delete (not optioned sr) probably saves a little more. It's just the thought not the actual numbers or handling effects. I feel almost as bad about my rear wiper.
It's true though I like the lines without a sunroof and without the twig on the back window - I've got both of them of course.
Almost as nagging as when my check engine light comes on but not quite.
It's true though I like the lines without a sunroof and without the twig on the back window - I've got both of them of course.
Almost as nagging as when my check engine light comes on but not quite.
01-26-2013, 01:48 PM
#52
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Hmm, the comment "apparently" in the thread sounds like its not an actual measurement, it sounds like an opinion that was passed on. How was that measurement actually determined? Was it weighing the roof/frame/motor vs the new roof side by side?
Ok, lets say it's 24 lb. for arguments sake. I suspect that too many changes on that car occurred to absolutely conclude that solid vs. sunroof really made a significant difference in the handling, acceleration or feel of the car, especially when also building in roll protection which would offer more chassis stiffening but also add weight back in, etc.
I think from an acceleration point of view, its a wash, the weight loss if it was just a sunroof delete is less than 0.8% of a stock car. From a rolling/pitching point of view, it may be more significant given a second moment uses the square of the distance from the roll center (I think I remember that correclty). However, I am still not sure if you can actually feel it, especially for road use.
Better get the flame suit on....
Cheers,
Mike
Ok, lets say it's 24 lb. for arguments sake. I suspect that too many changes on that car occurred to absolutely conclude that solid vs. sunroof really made a significant difference in the handling, acceleration or feel of the car, especially when also building in roll protection which would offer more chassis stiffening but also add weight back in, etc.
I think from an acceleration point of view, its a wash, the weight loss if it was just a sunroof delete is less than 0.8% of a stock car. From a rolling/pitching point of view, it may be more significant given a second moment uses the square of the distance from the roll center (I think I remember that correclty). However, I am still not sure if you can actually feel it, especially for road use.
Better get the flame suit on....
Cheers,
Mike
01-26-2013, 02:13 PM
#55
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I know for sure the sunroof panel is EXACTLY 5kg.....cos I weighed it.
Add to that the weight of the motor/gearbox unit and all the fixings and it could be 10-12kg maybe?
Add to that the weight of the motor/gearbox unit and all the fixings and it could be 10-12kg maybe?
01-26-2013, 03:54 PM
#56
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Hmm, the comment "apparently" in the thread sounds like its not an actual measurement, it sounds like an opinion that was passed on. How was that measurement actually determined? Was it weighing the roof/frame/motor vs the new roof side by side?
Ok, lets say it's 24 lb. for arguments sake. I suspect that too many changes on that car occurred to absolutely conclude that solid vs. sunroof really made a significant difference in the handling, acceleration or feel of the car, especially when also building in roll protection which would offer more chassis stiffening but also add weight back in, etc.
Mike
Ok, lets say it's 24 lb. for arguments sake. I suspect that too many changes on that car occurred to absolutely conclude that solid vs. sunroof really made a significant difference in the handling, acceleration or feel of the car, especially when also building in roll protection which would offer more chassis stiffening but also add weight back in, etc.
Mike
I used the word apparently because I am probably even more cynical than you and I didn't personally weigh the stuff coming off when the roof was done (hence apparently) but I remember the guy who did it was/is a professional and very **** and is very credible, he did weigh everything - I wanted to know.
I got my 993 from 1516kg DIN (ie full of fuel) down to 1380kg, taking weight off is all about 10kg here and there (apart from the 4WD system which is a straight 50kg !) so every little bit helps in handling, acceleration etc.
My 993 is in 4WD mode now and weighs about 1440kg and the 60kg lost is very noticeable compared to stock.
weight loss items
carbon hood
carbon doors with minimal (Marcus) interior trim
carbon reinforcing bars behind bumpers
plexiglass rear window
RS side windows
Cobra Misano seats
Sunroof delete
Gutter delete
Rear wiper delete
Headlight washer delete
front spare and carpet delete
BBS E88 wheels
Cat delete
02-10-2013, 11:43 AM
#57
Burning Brakes
I do have a 97 Signal Yellow Black interior sunroof delete. Original owner was Mike Valentine and it is my understanding that he orders his cars without a sunroof because he is tall (not sure on his height)...
There was also a sunroof delete 97 Arctic Silver with Boxster Red interior that sold last year through Canepa and previously sold through RPM.
I am aware of a Glacier white with Blue Interior that is in Colorado that is sunroof delete also plus the arctic silver one that sold through European Collectibles that was lost to fire as mentioned earlier in this thread... that makes 4 and there was also a Speed Yellow 97 in Ohio that I looked at about 3 years ago...but on that one I was unable to confirm that it was optioned from the factory that way so ... I know of 4 and 1 that has no sunroof the question being was it done afterwards...
There was also a sunroof delete 97 Arctic Silver with Boxster Red interior that sold last year through Canepa and previously sold through RPM.
I am aware of a Glacier white with Blue Interior that is in Colorado that is sunroof delete also plus the arctic silver one that sold through European Collectibles that was lost to fire as mentioned earlier in this thread... that makes 4 and there was also a Speed Yellow 97 in Ohio that I looked at about 3 years ago...but on that one I was unable to confirm that it was optioned from the factory that way so ... I know of 4 and 1 that has no sunroof the question being was it done afterwards...
