Z356

"The Porsche 911 (991) facelift was spied once again and just like before this prototype could depict the upcoming GTS derivative. Porsche plans a mild makeover for the 911 (991 generation) for the 2015 model year so expect the car to be revealed at a major auto show sometime next year. From what we have seen so far, updates will be brought to both front and rear bumpers, LED daytime running lights and also around the company's logo on the hood. In addition, the door handles appear a bit modified and are likely to adopt a simpler look."

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11312056...ts-spied-again

Don't fret too much over the photos attached to the above report. These mules are heavily camouflage. But here are what these changes might look like in the upcoming MY2015 .2 991 facelift:

A) From the just released MY2014 991 gt3:

1) New treatment of 'logo on the hood'. Indented/set back as current but Porsche crest done in new casting method. Less reflective enamel. Very attractive, in my opinion, if indeed that is what we are seeing in hood of this MY2014 991gt3! (Attached photos #1 & #2).*

2) LED Daylight running lights. Could this slight change (black surround) in the gt3's running lights be it for the .2 991? (Attached photo #3). I would have expected more. (Edit-I don't think this is it. I am leaning towards the Turbo S daylight running lights. Full oval-shape LED lights. That's the ticket. See last photos #10 & #11)

3) I don't have a 'handle' yet on what the new handles will look like on the .2 991. Perhaps some of you can chime in.

*All three photos above supplied by Rennlist member FLM911, who just took delivery of his 991 gt3!

--------------

B) Design clues taken from the new 918 and Macan:

1) New style 'sport design' steering wheel (Attached photos #4 & #5). I am hoping this is only offered as the 'sport design' optional wheel and that we will a 'less bulky' steering wheel as 'standard'. Note the new horn button, with an interior chromed circular ring! This will be the standard new horn button for all Porsche steering wheels going forward! (see photo #9).

2) Larger rear LED lights (than in the current .1 991). I expect that the rear lights (along with a redesigned bumper) will be the most noticeable facelift external feature of the 'new' .2 991! Elements will be borrowed from the new rear lights of the Macan and/or the 918! (Attached photos #6 & #7).

------------------------

C) New external & interior colors for the .2 991 model range:

1) My guess is that Mahogany Metallic, Amaranth Red Metallic and the 'special' Lime Gold Metallic will be replaced with new colors!

2) I am hopeful that dual tone 'Black/Carrera Red', currently available on the .1 991 Turbo S, will be offered on all .2 991 models.

3) I expect to see the addition of another special leather to replace 'Umber', which was recently discontinued. Suspect it will be in the light brown family - maybe 'Amber Orange' from the 981 line?

------------------------

D) I expect that these options will be offered in at least limited editions or special models:

1) PDK Sport from the .1 991 gt3

2) Rear Axle Steering from the .1 991 gt3

3) Additional Alcantara Options as found on the .1 991 gt3. (under-dash, bottom of door panels, seat inlays, etc).

4) New Sport Bucket Seats (fixed or folding -not yet sure) with integrated air bags and electrically adjusted up & down controls (at least on driver's side). These will be in the style similar to those already designed by Thorsten Klein for the 918 Spyder (Attached photo #8). These new sport buckets seats will be first seen on a 991 on the MY2015 gt3 RS, where they will be standard offerings at no additional cost. Perhaps this MY2015 gt3 RS, expected to be first shown to the public in Spring of 2014, will be the earliest date we see the new 'look' of the .2 991. In other words, it will have the revised tail lights and the other features talked about earlier on this thread all integrated into the final design.

I estimate that we will be see these options (D/1-4) offered on the .2 991 gts and others limited editions or special models from Porsche from MY2015 to the end of that model (MY2017?).

E) When will the MY2015 be starting production? I suspect late Spring / early Summer of 2014. Porsche abandoned the post 'August' Zuffenhausen vacation of its work force years ago as its 'transition' from one MY to another.

Love to hear what others here at Rennlist anticipate the changes will be in MY2015 for the .2 991.

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

I am the author of these other threads at Rennlist:

'Custom Ordering' Thread:https://rennlist.com/forums/991/7085...e-and-you.html

'Visit to Zuffenhausen' Thread:https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...a-991-gt3.html

'918 Test Drive' Thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-...st-2013-a.html

'Boxster Spyder Total Production' Thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...er-spyder.html
.
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pyramid

Looking forward for the facelift, a great time to finish up your 991 long overdue custom order.

991999R

Thanks Eduardo...this shall prove helpful in my 2014 custom order negotiations =)

Z356

A little wheel speculation for the upcoming MY2015 facelift.

Of the optional wheels offered on the .1 991 S model, I think the least favorite is the 20 inch 'Sport Design' Wheel (photo #1 on the Rhodium car) and it might be dropped. It is a $390 option on a 991S. I think that the 20 inch 'Carrera S' wheel (Photo #2 on Guards Red car) is the symbol of the entire 991 platform and will continue. It is the standard no/cost option on the 991 S. The 20 inch 'Carrera Classic' wheel (Photo #3 on Agate car) is surprisingly popular. It is a $1170 option on a 991S. US dealers, for some reason that I don't understand very well, appear to love the look of this wheel and seem to order it on many of their spec inventory 991's. The 20 inch 'Sport Techno' wheel (Photo #4 on Racing Yellow car) is my favorite of those currently offered and the most expensive! It is a $1355 option on a 991S, but you also get a wider rear tire when you order this option!

My speculation is that Porsche will offer at least one more 20 inch optional wheel for the regular .2 991 and .2 991 S with the facelift, replacing perhaps the 20 inch 'Sport Design' wheel (photo #1 Rhodium). The new offering might be the 20 inch 'Sport Classic' wheel (Photo # 5 on the Sapphire Blue car) as currently offered on the .1 991 Turbo S. This is the exact same 20 inch wheel standard on the 50th Anniversary Limited Edition, but without the black background (Photo #6 on the Geyser Grey car) to simulate the old Fuchs. The other choice would be the 20 inch '911 Turbo' wheel (Photo #7 on the Mahogany car). My choice would be the 'Sport Classic' but it would not surprise me if they instead go with the '911 Turbo' wheel. The 'Sport Classic' might be considered too similar to the current 'Sport Techno', which I think will remain in the line-up!

The standard no cost wheel (Photo #8 on Amaranth car) for the base .1 991 is not the most interesting of available 19" wheels. I have no feeling either way if Porsche will change it for the .2 991 base. But I would...if I was Porsche.

The 20-inch 911 Turbo S wheel (Photo #9 on the Riviera Blue car) with central locking device will probably be offered as an option on the upcoming .2 991 GTS. They could also offer the 20 inch 'gt3' wheel (Photo #10 on the Lime Gold car) with central locking device, but they may want to keep that exclusive for the gt3!

Hope others chime in with their thoughts on the facelift options on the .2 991!

Feliz Navidad,
Eduardo
Carmel
.

chuck911

The Carrera S, both in terms of looks and ease of daily cleaning, is just a terrific wheel. Plus it is the lightest and cheapest. Hard to beat. Sport Techno's look great, including being wider, but its hard to feel like you're getting much that really justifies the higher price.

The real problem to me is that all these wheels are just more of the same- same thing, just shaped a little different. Porsche is doing a fine job with advanced materials and technology in every other area, but with wheels it feels like they've actually gone backwards from the days of the Fuchs. Its been so long now that probably a lot of people have forgotten - or never learned - that the Fuchs is one of (if not the) lightest, strongest single piece forged alloy wheel ever made. Even to this day Porsche offers no wheel that can hold a candle to the original Fuchs.

I would like see Porsche tackle this problem. Offer a single piece [/I]forged[/I] alloy wheel that weighs less and is stronger than any of the current options. Better yet, carbon fiber. If a small after-market company can build custom carbon fiber wheels for $20k then Porsche ought to be able to offer an all-carbon wheel for about the cost of PCCB or less. At half the weight but stronger, with carbon fibers natural vibration dampening properties cutting road noise, it could turn out to be one of the more significant performance options available.

008

Why do you think they're doing the facelift a year sooner on the 991? I know sales are brisk in the US, not sure about the row. Obviously the price increase has affected who is buying what and I've heard rumblings about how poor the resale is in Europe but I'm not sure what a FL will add if it's accompanied by the likely price hike. The 997.1 to 997.2 update was most significant for its mechanical changes. Have you heard anything about any major updates there?

You had also speculated that the 991 would run its course as a MY 17, this seems short given the 997 was 8 model years with some crossover. The 996 was only 6 and maybe that's more telling because the same chassis underpins both the 7 and the 6 and I understand the current chassis is to last two model cycles as well.

Z356

Remember, this is just sheer speculation. And it could very well be that the .2 991 facelift will not appear until the MY2016, introduced early in the Spring of calendar year 2015. So I doubt any of this speculation will work to your advantage on your negotiations with your dealer. Besides, dealers are usually the last to know, much less admit, than a facelift is coming on a current model! I tends to ruin sales of present models & inventory. But good luck anyway on your custom order!


Personally, I would have expected the facelift in MY2016. The first 991's in regular series production started at Zuffenhausen in the early fall of calendar year 2011 and we first saw them here at Rennsport IV at Laguna Seca (see attached photos that I took at that event). The first 991's that were sent here for sale to the public arrived in late winter (at beginning of calendar year 2012) and were sold as MY2012's - even though MY2012's .2 997's were also still available for sale.

Normally, you would have expected the .1 991 to run four model years before a facelift - MY2012, MY2013, MY2014 & MY2015. And the facelifted .2 991 to run MY2016, MY2017, MY2018 and perhaps part of MY2019. Why some of the international press is speculating that the 991 might get a facelift in MY2015 it's not clear to me. If you read the original article I linked it mentions just 2015, which could be correctly interpreted as MY2016. I just decided to have some fun with it and speculate as to what the changes Porsche might make for the .2 991. If the facelift doesn't happen for MY2015, it will arrive certainly for MY2016 and introduced as a early Spring calendar year 2015. In either case, we can speculate about the anticipated changes we might see in any facelift!

The only thing radically different in this era of the 991 that differs from the 997 is the increased pace of restrictive emissions standards, especially in Europe. The one thing we can perhaps talk about is the impact of Euro Cycle 6 emissions standards, which go into effect in September of 2014, and what effect it will have on Porsche and the 991 in particular! There is speculation over at the 991 gt3 forum that it might mean the END of the natural aspirated high performance engines like the 3.8-liter boxer engine recently debuted in the MY2014 991 gt3 and that might also be used in the MY2015 991 gt3 RS! The rumor is that Porsche might be forced to rush production on all its MY2014 gt3's and MY2015 gt3 RS's and complete them BEFORE the beginning of September of 2014* to avoid the heavy penalties mandated if these Euro Cycle 6 emissions standards are not met. And these particular high performance naturally aspirated Porsche engines, efficient as they seem to be with direct fuel injection, etc, apparently don't satisfy the new, tougher rules of the European Union.

*9-1-2014 is the date for mandated 'new type approvals'. The EC Directives also specify a second date — one year later — which applies to first registration (entry into service) of existing, previously type-approved vehicle models. That is why Porsche mentions September of 2015 in its notice below. However, some are saying that the 9-1-2014 date will be of tremendous importance (e.g. to the gt3), so all of this needs to be further discussed and explained to us the laymen so we understand better what is going on!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea...sion_standards

If Euro Cycle 6 mandates radically change the way Porsche is able to deliver performance on its 991 & 981 models, we might see an earlier introduction of the .2 facelift as the bodies will have to be modified to accept the introduction of turbo models across the range - from the Boxster/Cayman to the traditionally naturally aspirated versions of the 911. The only Porsche series production model that meets Euro Cycle 6 mandates (NOT SURPRISINGLY) is the just introduced MY2014 991 Turbo and Turbo S!

"Another good example: the new 911 Turbo models already meet the Euro 6 emissions standard which will be obligatory for all new petrol engine cars from September 2015."

http://www.porsche.com/international...e/performance/

The rest of the existing engines used currently by Porsche might perhaps have to be re-worked to meet the new Euro Cycle 6 standards, especially those of particular high performance. And we still don't know the net effect all of this will have on the engines chosen for its most sporting future vehicles - .2 gt3 & RS (will it even be one?), 991 gts, Cayman gts, et al. If we have a major shift to turbos to gain performance under the new regulations, various metal panels in the 991 that might need modification! And it would probably be best to coincide the new engines offerings with the facelifted .2 991 models. But this is pure speculation at this time.

You will note that the rumored 960 engine will be a boxer eight with four turbochargers, two intercoolers, four adjustable camshafts, a complex multistage intake manifold, and dual-stage exhaust! We have no clear idea yet of what the future 911 engine range will be like. But expect more turbos and PDK computerized transmissions in order for Porsche to meet these increasingly tougher emissions standards and still provide high performance sport cars!

Would like to know more about the source of information re: the present 991 chassis lasting two model cycles. It is an interesting concept.

Merry Christmas,
Eduardo
Carmel
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Dyim

Eduardo,

Is EC 6 model specific or averaged across the brand? In US, CAFE is across the brand, so if you sell enough cars with good fuel economy, it offsets the gas guzzler. I am not sure what is the newer regulations in US.

If EC 6 is model specific, then I think there is no choice for Porsche and they have to go the turbo route for 911 IMO.

Porsche is already going the turbo route in Macan and Panamera S.

aussie jimmy

plenty of turbo 911's are forthcoming...

008

I thought someone posted their 991 GT3 registration listed it as euro 6 compliant in the gt3 forum but I know nothing about the euro regs. That engine is going to be an expensive lesson if Porsche can only use it in one model run on the limited GT cars. Regardless, with all of the changes coming, I'm very happy I just took delivery of my NA 3.8 with a 7MT.

The comment about the current chassis spanning two generations was made in one of the auto mags when the 991 was launched credited to a porsche engineer. I'm sure I no longer have the mag but I'll see if I can find it on line. There was also a comment that after that the 911 will be built on a shared VW family platform.

Z356

Yes, it does make sense that the extensive changes made to the 911 in the form of the 991 chassis would last for two model cycles! Let us know if you find more info on that. As for the 'shared VW family platform', the most interesting conversation in the past revolved around a new platform to be shared by Audi, Lamborghini and Porsche. It was for a mid-engine, AWD chassis.

"The addition of carbon in platform development is something Porsche is also expected to exploit for the design of a new mid-engine platform that will be used for the next-generation Audi R8 and Lamborghini Gallardo successor, and if approved a new Ferrari 458 rival from Porsche."

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...d-platform-msb

However, this concept was disrupted by the newer press reports like this:

"With Porsche put in charge of sports car and luxury sedan development at the Volkswagen Group, we’re going to start seeing the sports car brand developing a greater number of models for fellow Volkswagen Group brands, including the likes of Audi and Bentley. Such a task is made possible due to the development of a newrange of modular platforms, in particular, the 'Modular Standard Platform' from Porsche. This platform, known as the 'Modularer Standardantrieb-Baukasten' in German, is for a conventional front-engine, rear-wheel drive layout, hence the word 'standard' in its title. A variation of this platform, the 'Modularer Sport-Baukasten', or 'Modular Sport Platform', is also being developed, and this one will feature engines in either a mid or rear position. The Modular Sport Platform will be used for a range of future sports cars from the Volkswagen Group, including the next 911.

It was previously thought that this platform would also spawn the next-generation Audi R8 and Lamborghini Gallardo replacement, but 'Car and Driver' is reporting that the next R8 will stick to an Audi platform, which means it’s likely the Gallardo replacement will too. Apparently the next R8, which is expected to arrive in late 2014, is already too far into its development to switch to Porsche’s Modular Sport Platform."

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...latform-report

Although too late to effect the next mid-engine R8 or Lamborghini, Porsche will showcase its own (many say superior) state-of-the-art mid-engine platform in the current 918 Spyder, which will be the basis for the frame & engineering dynamics (minus electric & batteries) that we will see on the upcoming 960 , the FeFi or Ferrari Fighter! In addition, Weissach will continue to develop the Group's basic 'Modular Sport Platform' so that all within the VW family (including future Audi & Porsche models) can share them!

I don't know for sure. We need more information from folks intimately familiar with the engineering, the regulations and the politics. For example, folks over the 991 gt3 forum have speculated that it will not effect 991 gt3 deliveries to the US after 9/2014 since Euro Cycle 6 is not a US mandate. I personally don't believe Porsche will produce a gt3 model that it can't sell in 'the homeland' and its only for export.

I don't think the 991 gt3 is Euro 6 compliant. It is only Euro 5! Here are some of the posts that have been discussed on the 991 gt3 forum that have started the ball rolling. All three of these quotes come from respected Rennlister 'Macca', who has just taken delivery of his ROW spec 991 gt3 in Europe before shipping it back to his native New Zealand!

"Its quite possible this gen GT3 may be the last in the 991 series. Euro 6 emissions standards make the current GT3 costly for Porsche to produce from 01 Sept 2014 and also more expensive to register for the owner. Unfortunately it looks like the end is close for the naturally aspirated engine and we will see future 911s packing small capacity turbos and hybrid drivetrains!"

"P.S. I heard from a source close to PAG there will not be a Gen 2 GT3 in the 991 series and that the current GT3 will not be manufactured from 01 Sept. Apparently they will produce all 991 GT3RS variance before that date to beat the Euro 6 penalties. Apparently the debate on Euro 6 is drawing to a close and the Germans held out for more time but ended up winning some other concessions but not the time..."

https://rennlist.com/forums/rennlist...aland-488.html

"As a point of interest its becoming increasingly likely that the 991 GT3 will complete production before September 2014 and this may be the last GT3 we see of this kind (NA engine etc). 991 RS production is slated to be very short indeed. In the UK RHD market dealers have returned deposits above and beyond the 250 unit allocation they have been given. Its not 100% clear yet but it seems the new Euro Emissions 6 rule which Porsche has signed up to (they were forced along with other german manufactures to when faced with an alternative proposal that saw cars limited in HP and VMax) will essentially kill the NA GT3 concept and at this time Porsche has no answer to that in its future GT range. A few in the know are speculating based on PAG insiders that there will not bet a Gen2 GT3. It seems that could be quite likely. What a shame, but no surprising, as Mike from CA and others have speculated in the last 12 montsh we could see turbo or hybrid in the future but also perhaps a step change game mover with a mid engine platform as basis for motorsport from 2016 onwards...all good for 991 GT3 owners but sad for Porsche enthusiasts as a whole - anyway it hasnt happened yet and is still purely speculation albeit with some input form company insiders....01 Sept 2014 is dealine for production off non compliant Euro Emissions 6 cars. If you think California is tough this new EU legislation is set to essentially bankrupt some smaller manufacturers with compliance and development costs!"

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...l#post10989859

___________

You can also follow this conversation at the following thread, starting with post #10 by Reidry.

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...gt3-order.html

We need to get more information on this subject ASAP. It is bound to have enormous implications for all newer versions of the 911!

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

008

Spent some time looking for that old article, didn't come up with it but I found this that talks about 991 updates including a hybrid drivetrain in MY16.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...e-look-feature

"Anders" in another thread stated his GT3 was euro 6 compliant:

ScottKelly911

Just a real quick Photochop I did to show what the 918 tail lights would look like on a 991 TT. Very crude, but I just was curious and wanted to see real fast. 918 on the Left, stock on the right. Personally, I think the 918 style light fits the 991 really nicely based on this quick chop, at least on the Turbo

Z356

There you go. That looks like what we will see on the facelift...or damn close. Nice job at photoshop!

Saludos,
Eduardo