First Real World Owners Feedback?
12-19-2013, 11:44 AM
#556
Rennlist Member
Gents. Currently in Tuscany (very condition poor roads - no way of going above 70kmph without risking grounding out the chin spoiler). Heading to San Remo via Rapallo next few days to tackle the famed San Remo Rally circuit in the hills above the town. Rain is forecast!
Here is a sneak peak....
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/mo...o-rally-course
Heres the beginning of the article...
One word daubed in white paint on a rock the size of a Skoda Citigo offers a hint that Strada Provinciale 56, a mountain road in north-west Italy, is part of rallying folklore. Situated at a crossroads, the weathered monolith reads, quite simply, ‘Rohrl’.
It’s a succinct tribute to double world rally champion Walter Röhrl, a legend in these parts for pedalling a Fiat 131 Abarth to victory on Rallye Sanremo in 1980 and repeating the feat in an Audi Quattro Sport S1 in 1985.
Rallye Sanremo may be based in the grand old seaside town that gives the event its name, but the action takes place on closed public roads overlooking the Mediterranean coastline. In the small, quiet settlements that litter the route, rallying is as much a part of life as the olives grown on the steep hillsides by the local farmers.
Once a five-day marathon that took crews as far away as Livorno, some 200 miles along the coast, Rallye Sanremo is these days a sprint event, comprising 10 special stages packed into a manic 25 hours.
We’ve been drawn here by the most feared stage of the rally: Ronde. At 27.34 miles, it’s the longest test in the Intercontinental Rally Challenge and splices together three roads used earlier in the rally into one über-stage.
Ronde contains everything: tortuous hairpins, fast descents, narrow bridges, blind crests, changing grip levels, bumpy sections where harsh winters have broken the asphalt, a fast and flowing forest section and some fresh-air cliff drops. Then there’s the dark. Yes, the Automobile Club of Sanremo sees fit to run the stage at night, although, as one rally team manager says, “At least you can’t see the drops in the dark.
__________________
Here is a sneak peak....
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/mo...o-rally-course
Heres the beginning of the article...
One word daubed in white paint on a rock the size of a Skoda Citigo offers a hint that Strada Provinciale 56, a mountain road in north-west Italy, is part of rallying folklore. Situated at a crossroads, the weathered monolith reads, quite simply, ‘Rohrl’.
It’s a succinct tribute to double world rally champion Walter Röhrl, a legend in these parts for pedalling a Fiat 131 Abarth to victory on Rallye Sanremo in 1980 and repeating the feat in an Audi Quattro Sport S1 in 1985.
Rallye Sanremo may be based in the grand old seaside town that gives the event its name, but the action takes place on closed public roads overlooking the Mediterranean coastline. In the small, quiet settlements that litter the route, rallying is as much a part of life as the olives grown on the steep hillsides by the local farmers.
Once a five-day marathon that took crews as far away as Livorno, some 200 miles along the coast, Rallye Sanremo is these days a sprint event, comprising 10 special stages packed into a manic 25 hours.
We’ve been drawn here by the most feared stage of the rally: Ronde. At 27.34 miles, it’s the longest test in the Intercontinental Rally Challenge and splices together three roads used earlier in the rally into one über-stage.
Ronde contains everything: tortuous hairpins, fast descents, narrow bridges, blind crests, changing grip levels, bumpy sections where harsh winters have broken the asphalt, a fast and flowing forest section and some fresh-air cliff drops. Then there’s the dark. Yes, the Automobile Club of Sanremo sees fit to run the stage at night, although, as one rally team manager says, “At least you can’t see the drops in the dark.
__________________
look forward to more.
12-19-2013, 12:00 PM
#557
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Quite true to comparing cars back to back can make the differences surprisingly striking. Upside of this phenomenon is that you can get to like a car by adapting to it, downside is that you may not realize what you're missing until you compare with something else.
12-19-2013, 01:05 PM
#558
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I was just sitting outside the hotel looking at mine after (mostly) autostrada drive from Tuscany today. She looks lovely even grubby with brake dust. I still cant get over how compact she looks in the flesh compared to the pictures. Not 964/994 compact but without a comparitive old skool model parked next to her she is still a miracle of packaging. When driving the car it doesnt feel any bigger really than the 993 but that may be because its definitely more manovourable (better turning lock to lock and it follows inputs sharper and quicker, although I confess with less feedback through the wheel).
These Italian Autostrads are a laugh. We must have covered 700 km on them now. Damn expensive (todays journey on the Autostrada was 120km and cost 14.50 Euro!). That said havent seen a single cop on them (rightly so as they are basically a private road!) and the traffic always seems light (only tucks, businessmen and tourists can afford to use them in austerity stricken Europe!). The limit is mostly 130kmph. We sat on 150 and were overtaken by 2.0TDI audi wagons and Citron vans! A few times we ventured up to 170kmph to catch up to someone who had over taken us). Man you can cober some serious ground quickly in Italy if you pay and really I cant see the point in having a limit if no one sticks to it...
Wurlie, Im afraid Frayed was right, well kind of as there is a caveat. My comments were pointing to the fact that you really need to get under the skin of this machine with some aggressive driving to understand the capability and adjust ability of its chassis. Im not sure Id see many US owners doing that on the local roads, but I think some track work would build that confidence up quickly. Once you understand how the car behaves having been driven quickly and closer to the limit I reckon you could have fun at much slower speed using paddle neutral, manual shifting and learning on the chassis a bit more during canyon runs etc than you might naturally do if you treated it with kid gloves and were scared of it. Once you realise its quite a small and chuckable car (by holistic standards) you start to feel more comfortable making it do things you otherwise wouldnt even at less than insane speeds.
For example after my learning about the ESC I played a bit (alone this time!) at turning in much faster on cold surfaces than was required to get the back of the car to break traction and get the ESC going again. You can do it at will if you want but being a bit over enthusiastic with it. That said I havent yet done it with ESC off as the roads here have been too narrow and rough. Once the car is home and on a favorite road I think i can play more with adjusting the cars attitude with steering, and throttle adjustments.
Personally I think the best of both worlds will probably be having both the 991 GT3 AND the 993 in the garage. TrakCars comments are so true. You move between vehicles adapting to each. The older stuff isnt fast but it gives you the feeling of being so when pushing on and taxes your abilities. The newer stuff rewards your driving skill and makes your realize how much work you do in the old stuff to keep it on the road. Although I believe the new GT3 will be a blindingly fast car putting in laptimes at my local track akin to a GT3 Cup car of a couple of years ago I believe my 993 will be more rewarding on the track. On a fast road segment the GT3 will cover ground very quickly with less "time exposed to danger" and more control. Its also by far the better touring car - the new chassis, suspension and of course modern conveniences are worlds apart from the older metal. The PDK also takes the hassle out of city traffic. This balance between the cars and technology suits me very well, although I appreciate it wont suit everyone, nor will everyone have an older 911 on hand for driving when they really want to enjoy maximum analogue input...
Anyway the USA cars are being delivered and by the weekend we will have owners reports on US soil. Im curious as to how other experiences will differ from mine. They undoubtedly will as Im using the car on European roads (much more similar to NZ than US roads from my experience) and of course its quite cool here now. Anyway Im curious and Im sure others will help take over fleshing out the experience for those who are waiting...
__________________
These Italian Autostrads are a laugh. We must have covered 700 km on them now. Damn expensive (todays journey on the Autostrada was 120km and cost 14.50 Euro!). That said havent seen a single cop on them (rightly so as they are basically a private road!) and the traffic always seems light (only tucks, businessmen and tourists can afford to use them in austerity stricken Europe!). The limit is mostly 130kmph. We sat on 150 and were overtaken by 2.0TDI audi wagons and Citron vans! A few times we ventured up to 170kmph to catch up to someone who had over taken us). Man you can cober some serious ground quickly in Italy if you pay and really I cant see the point in having a limit if no one sticks to it...
Wurlie, Im afraid Frayed was right, well kind of as there is a caveat. My comments were pointing to the fact that you really need to get under the skin of this machine with some aggressive driving to understand the capability and adjust ability of its chassis. Im not sure Id see many US owners doing that on the local roads, but I think some track work would build that confidence up quickly. Once you understand how the car behaves having been driven quickly and closer to the limit I reckon you could have fun at much slower speed using paddle neutral, manual shifting and learning on the chassis a bit more during canyon runs etc than you might naturally do if you treated it with kid gloves and were scared of it. Once you realise its quite a small and chuckable car (by holistic standards) you start to feel more comfortable making it do things you otherwise wouldnt even at less than insane speeds.
For example after my learning about the ESC I played a bit (alone this time!) at turning in much faster on cold surfaces than was required to get the back of the car to break traction and get the ESC going again. You can do it at will if you want but being a bit over enthusiastic with it. That said I havent yet done it with ESC off as the roads here have been too narrow and rough. Once the car is home and on a favorite road I think i can play more with adjusting the cars attitude with steering, and throttle adjustments.
Personally I think the best of both worlds will probably be having both the 991 GT3 AND the 993 in the garage. TrakCars comments are so true. You move between vehicles adapting to each. The older stuff isnt fast but it gives you the feeling of being so when pushing on and taxes your abilities. The newer stuff rewards your driving skill and makes your realize how much work you do in the old stuff to keep it on the road. Although I believe the new GT3 will be a blindingly fast car putting in laptimes at my local track akin to a GT3 Cup car of a couple of years ago I believe my 993 will be more rewarding on the track. On a fast road segment the GT3 will cover ground very quickly with less "time exposed to danger" and more control. Its also by far the better touring car - the new chassis, suspension and of course modern conveniences are worlds apart from the older metal. The PDK also takes the hassle out of city traffic. This balance between the cars and technology suits me very well, although I appreciate it wont suit everyone, nor will everyone have an older 911 on hand for driving when they really want to enjoy maximum analogue input...
Anyway the USA cars are being delivered and by the weekend we will have owners reports on US soil. Im curious as to how other experiences will differ from mine. They undoubtedly will as Im using the car on European roads (much more similar to NZ than US roads from my experience) and of course its quite cool here now. Anyway Im curious and Im sure others will help take over fleshing out the experience for those who are waiting...
__________________
12-19-2013, 01:45 PM
#559
Nordschleife Master
Nothing but respect for Macca!
You will have the best from "both worlds " with the 993 and you will appreciate the analog feel even more. Take the GT3 to the track and you will reach its potential there,I'm sure...and it will feel involving. On the street I believe you will enjoy the 993 more...just my opinion...
You will have the best from "both worlds " with the 993 and you will appreciate the analog feel even more. Take the GT3 to the track and you will reach its potential there,I'm sure...and it will feel involving. On the street I believe you will enjoy the 993 more...just my opinion...
12-19-2013, 02:57 PM
#560
Instructor
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12-19-2013, 04:04 PM
#562
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
As a point of interest its becoming increasingly likely that the 991 GT3 will complete production before September 2014 and this may be the last GT3 we see of this kind (NA engine etc). 991 RS production is slated to be very short indeed. In the UK RHD market dealers have returned deposits above and beyond the 250 unit allocation they have been given. Its not 100% clear yet but it seems the new Euro Emissions 6 rule which Porsche has signed up to (they were forced along with other german manufactures to when faced with an alternative proposal that saw cars limited in HP and VMax) will essentially kill the NA GT3 concept and at this time Porsche has no answer to that in its future GT range. A few in the know are speculating based on PAG insiders that there will not bet a Gen2 GT3. It seems that could be quite likely. What a shame, but no surprising, as Mike from CA and others have speculated in the last 12 montsh we could see turbo or hybrid in the future but also perhaps a step change game mover with a mid engine platform as basis for motorsport from 2016 onwards...all good for 991 GT3 owners but sad for Porsche enthusiasts as a whole - anyway it hasnt happened yet and is still purely speculation albeit with some input form company insiders....01 Sept 2014 is dealine for production off non compliant Euro Emissions 6 cars. If you think California is tough this new EU legislation is set to essentially bankrupt some smaller manufacturers with compliance and development costs!
Anyway this morning we left Tuscany for teh Italian Riviera. My wife snapped a few shots in the hotel carpark before we headed off - it was all of 8 Celcuis! The car was covered in overnight dew but I quite like the angle and perspective of some of the pictures so here they are for you....
12-19-2013, 04:54 PM
#564
Race Director
Hi mate. Jury is out on that one. Ive owned the 993 13 years, its far from standard and Ive driven alot of hard Km in that car, done alot of touring, its been a part of our family along time and hold alot of sentimental value. Picking up the 991 GT3 in Europe and having these experiences with it was as much part of the ownership plan as the car itself if truth be told. Im over things for things sake, Im fortunate, like other here in that I can afford (but not necessarily justify) buying most of what I want and need in life, but that no longer cuts it for me these days. Whether it be cars, watches or property etc it need to mean more to me than just beng an object, no matter how desirable. The 991 GT3 I have been driving now for 10 days. Its too early to tell if it could surpass the 993 in long term appeal, however the Euro adventure and some great driving roads has been an excellent start to the bonding process. We have another two weeks with he car before it goes on a boat on 21 Jan bound for NZ (6 week voyage). Over the next few weeks I hope to get at least a dozen decent drives in the car (early morning mountain pass sortes etc) along some of the worlds most famous driving roads. The weather has been perfect to date but now we have just started with rain which will be around for a good few days yet. It all helps build a icture of the car n various conditions. This accelerated bonding program with the car bodes well and to date I have no complaints - its does exactly whats on the label, but in reality I need some time in NZ on tracks and fast roads I have plenty off driving experience with to really tell. That being said Im slowly forming an ultimate opinion and I will share that when I have a bit more proper driving time under my belt. If the car arrives on schedule in NZ on 10 March 2014 I have a 5000km touring holiday in NZ South Island with 4 x South Island race tracks already booked and paid for. I will be joined by 12 other Pcar owners (we have our own little track day club called RSG). Id imagine that will complete the picture for me on the 991 GT3 and Ill know if this car is a long termer.
As a point of interest its becoming increasingly likely that the 991 GT3 will complete production before September 2014 and this may be the last GT3 we see of this kind (NA engine etc). 991 RS production is slated to be very short indeed. In the UK RHD market dealers have returned deposits above and beyond the 250 unit allocation they have been given. Its not 100% clear yet but it seems the new Euro Emissions 6 rule which Porsche has signed up to (they were forced along with other german manufactures to when faced with an alternative proposal that saw cars limited in HP and VMax) will essentially kill the NA GT3 concept and at this time Porsche has no answer to that in its future GT range. A few in the know are speculating based on PAG insiders that there will not bet a Gen2 GT3. It seems that could be quite likely. What a shame, but no surprising, as Mike from CA and others have speculated in the last 12 montsh we could see turbo or hybrid in the future but also perhaps a step change game mover with a mid engine platform as basis for motorsport from 2016 onwards...all good for 991 GT3 owners but sad for Porsche enthusiasts as a whole - anyway it hasnt happened yet and is still purely speculation albeit with some input form company insiders....01 Sept 2014 is dealine for production off non compliant Euro Emissions 6 cars. If you think California is tough this new EU legislation is set to essentially bankrupt some smaller manufacturers with compliance and development costs!
Anyway this morning we left Tuscany for teh Italian Riviera. My wife snapped a few shots in the hotel carpark before we headed off - it was all of 8 Celcuis! The car was covered in overnight dew but I quite like the angle and perspective of some of the pictures so here they are for you....
As a point of interest its becoming increasingly likely that the 991 GT3 will complete production before September 2014 and this may be the last GT3 we see of this kind (NA engine etc). 991 RS production is slated to be very short indeed. In the UK RHD market dealers have returned deposits above and beyond the 250 unit allocation they have been given. Its not 100% clear yet but it seems the new Euro Emissions 6 rule which Porsche has signed up to (they were forced along with other german manufactures to when faced with an alternative proposal that saw cars limited in HP and VMax) will essentially kill the NA GT3 concept and at this time Porsche has no answer to that in its future GT range. A few in the know are speculating based on PAG insiders that there will not bet a Gen2 GT3. It seems that could be quite likely. What a shame, but no surprising, as Mike from CA and others have speculated in the last 12 montsh we could see turbo or hybrid in the future but also perhaps a step change game mover with a mid engine platform as basis for motorsport from 2016 onwards...all good for 991 GT3 owners but sad for Porsche enthusiasts as a whole - anyway it hasnt happened yet and is still purely speculation albeit with some input form company insiders....01 Sept 2014 is dealine for production off non compliant Euro Emissions 6 cars. If you think California is tough this new EU legislation is set to essentially bankrupt some smaller manufacturers with compliance and development costs!
Anyway this morning we left Tuscany for teh Italian Riviera. My wife snapped a few shots in the hotel carpark before we headed off - it was all of 8 Celcuis! The car was covered in overnight dew but I quite like the angle and perspective of some of the pictures so here they are for you....
Your wife took nice photos.
Could you clarify exactly which headlights you ordered? Are those the standard PDLS or the black painted ones?
12-19-2013, 05:06 PM
#565
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hi Mike. Those are standard PDLS. Im very happy with them. In those photos they have dew on the lenses thus look a little strange. In real life they have a darker grey ring around the outside than the standard lights and they have a graphite grey interior "bowl" although the projector and the divider (low beam vs hi beam) are a chrome finish. They are the hardest aspect of the car to photograph IMO. Its like photographing a diamond ring! I have seen pictures of the black PDLS on a white GT3 in Germany but I think it would be a bit much from some angles whereas the PDLS standard gives you the same effect from some angles but also more "depth of contrast" in other angles (if that makes any sense)...
12-19-2013, 05:20 PM
#566
Race Director
Hi Mike. Those are standard PDLS. Im very happy with them. In those photos they have dew on the lenses thus look a little strange. In real life they have a darker grey ring around the outside than the standard lights and they have a graphite grey interior "bowl" although the projector and the divider (low beam vs hi beam) are a chrome finish. They are the hardest aspect of the car to photograph IMO. Its like photographing a diamond ring! I have seen pictures of the black PDLS on a white GT3 in Germany but I think it would be a bit much from some angles whereas the PDLS standard gives you the same effect from some angles but also more "depth of contrast" in other angles (if that makes any sense)...
I was thinking (hoping) those were the standard PDLS as that is just the look I was going for when I ordered them. I hope they end up looking as good on my red car as they do on your white one!
12-19-2013, 06:39 PM
#569
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Macca, I'll say it a million times if I have to but Thanks for your great reporting and experience sharing. It has been more helpful and enjoyable than press articles. Compliments to your wife's photo taking skills and patience.
12-19-2013, 06:47 PM
#570
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What's particularly impressive is the rash of **** Macca was taking for months on end as he expressed his views on the upcoming metal. He and Mike took the trolls on with an even hand. Me not so much. So to come back now with such unselfish reporting is commendable.