GT3 To 570S
12-15-2016, 10:12 PM
#47
Pro
I had also been investigating a switch from my 2014 GT3 to a Mclaren.
I admit to being intrigued by their engineering prowess and mid engine carbon fiber tub platform. I still am. Styling is personal and is not a zero sum game. I like the looks of both the Porsche GT3 and all of the McLaren models, especially the 570S.
IMO, McLaren 570S's will depreciate more than your GT3 percentage wise but less than the 12C or 650S models. Some of the other posts touch on why. One addition reason is that right now the older 12C model is providing some what of a floor for the 570S residuals in that there is a lot of value for some in a 12C at $130-$160k.
I had a chance to drive a MP4-12C and to trade close to even up for it.
The 12C rode far better than my GT3 had great chassis balance and had superior levels of acceleration on par with a 2014-2015 Turbo.
However these were the only two areas it outperformed the GT3. Getting in and out was a problem. The interior has not been thought out anywhere as well nor is the fit and finish anywhere on the car to the level of a GT3. The gauges remind me more of a video game in how they read out and simply do not provide the level of information I want. No cup holders that can be reached by the driver while driving, although I think this has been changed on the 570S. A some what isolated driving experience as well and a ho hum exhaust note. The transmission was good but quite to PDK levels. Brakes were also good. I left the test drive feeling glad I had my GT3 but still impressed with the 12C and what future models may hold. Which brings us to the 570S which I have not driven but am very curious about.
The lack of a nearby McLaren dealership (closest one 300 miles away) ultimately killed any serious thought of trading now. However if that distance were halved or less so that a service trip could be completed easily in one day, I would reconsider. I hope Porsche of Omaha will pick up McLaren.
I admit to being intrigued by their engineering prowess and mid engine carbon fiber tub platform. I still am. Styling is personal and is not a zero sum game. I like the looks of both the Porsche GT3 and all of the McLaren models, especially the 570S.
IMO, McLaren 570S's will depreciate more than your GT3 percentage wise but less than the 12C or 650S models. Some of the other posts touch on why. One addition reason is that right now the older 12C model is providing some what of a floor for the 570S residuals in that there is a lot of value for some in a 12C at $130-$160k.
I had a chance to drive a MP4-12C and to trade close to even up for it.
The 12C rode far better than my GT3 had great chassis balance and had superior levels of acceleration on par with a 2014-2015 Turbo.
However these were the only two areas it outperformed the GT3. Getting in and out was a problem. The interior has not been thought out anywhere as well nor is the fit and finish anywhere on the car to the level of a GT3. The gauges remind me more of a video game in how they read out and simply do not provide the level of information I want. No cup holders that can be reached by the driver while driving, although I think this has been changed on the 570S. A some what isolated driving experience as well and a ho hum exhaust note. The transmission was good but quite to PDK levels. Brakes were also good. I left the test drive feeling glad I had my GT3 but still impressed with the 12C and what future models may hold. Which brings us to the 570S which I have not driven but am very curious about.
The lack of a nearby McLaren dealership (closest one 300 miles away) ultimately killed any serious thought of trading now. However if that distance were halved or less so that a service trip could be completed easily in one day, I would reconsider. I hope Porsche of Omaha will pick up McLaren.
Last edited by john weires; 12-15-2016 at 11:16 PM. Reason: improve clarity of message
12-15-2016, 10:45 PM
#48
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The only thing seriously keeping me from a McLaren is the dealership network.
As an aside, I think the new AMG GT-R is a very viable alternative to the 570S.
As an aside, I think the new AMG GT-R is a very viable alternative to the 570S.
12-16-2016, 10:01 PM
#49
12-17-2016, 12:53 AM
#50
Pro
I was driving the RS and my brother was driving the GT3. We had a 570s behind us and when he had the opportunity, he violently went passed us. I had to pull up and give him a thumps up. He said he a white RS. The car sounds amazing. Very unique. Not as pure as our GT3's/RS but they def look cool. I think i would have to go with an R8 if im gonna go around 200k market. 250k area im sticking with the RS.
12-17-2016, 01:34 AM
#51
Platinum Dealership
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It is very interesting reading all the comments.
It is not my intention to constantly qualify my bias or acumen but want to, in this case point out that I am not as biased as some might think-
not only have I owned 5 GT3RS cars and a GT3 over the years, but have also owned or driven every mclaren. 12C, 650LM, P1, LT coupe, 650 spider, 570GT, 570S, and have a 675LT spider finally en route. Will also have either a 570 GT4 or a Sprint as a dealership demo car.
There has been a CLEAR improvement over the 12C with each new model.
650S has better front end grip, less understeer
P1 has better everything including Nav, AC, etc.
675LT is so light. Brakes are amazing. Best noise from any mac yet
570S is easier to get in/ out of. Also has better displays and more accessible cup holders.
570GT is an effortless touring car with more luggage space and still looks like it's an alien space ship with a glass roof and miles of leather options.
For me:
If you could only have one car- a 570S is a good combo car but is definitely compromised compared to a GT3 (which is also compromised compared to a Turbo S or RS). The doors make some people uncomfortable although the LWB seats are unbearable for some Porsche Driver's.
If you have a main car, and want more power- it makes sense to get a 650S because it is definitely faster. That being said, the 570 is nicer ergonomically although the 650 rides better and performs better.
As some have said the 570S is more of a canyon carved/ long distance driver vs a Gt3 or RS. The suspension on the RS/ GT3 is not as compliant and not as smooth. Also the rear steering in the GT3/RS leaves a weird aftertaste on corner entry.
The steering in the 570S is superior, but the car only really "works it's magic" when you have ESC OFF. So, for track days, the sensation of car control is better in the 570S than any GT3 or RS- it is lively and direct. but only if you go TCS/ ESC off in 570.
I have said this multiple times but the 991 RS is not the "best car ever" for me. The RS 4.0 is second place to the 675LT in my rankings. Taking nothing away from the car- it's incredible but the LT has 170-199 more HP and weighs 200+ lbs less than a GT3/RS.
McLaren's on track require a different driving style for ultimate lap times vs the Porsches. You have to brake less, scrub speed a little more on entry and sustain a longer relatively high minimum speed. Porsches basically mash brakes into a tight pivot and power out and McLarens are more of a nimble threading maneuver. It's not better one way, just different.
Since I have the LT and P1 I'd rather have the 570GT vs the S, it fits what I will use it for better. I also just traded in my RS on an R- hopefully the R makes me forget, but I know the LT spider will destroy everything else performance and noise wise. Just wish it had a better gauge cluster.
It is not my intention to constantly qualify my bias or acumen but want to, in this case point out that I am not as biased as some might think-
not only have I owned 5 GT3RS cars and a GT3 over the years, but have also owned or driven every mclaren. 12C, 650LM, P1, LT coupe, 650 spider, 570GT, 570S, and have a 675LT spider finally en route. Will also have either a 570 GT4 or a Sprint as a dealership demo car.
There has been a CLEAR improvement over the 12C with each new model.
650S has better front end grip, less understeer
P1 has better everything including Nav, AC, etc.
675LT is so light. Brakes are amazing. Best noise from any mac yet
570S is easier to get in/ out of. Also has better displays and more accessible cup holders.
570GT is an effortless touring car with more luggage space and still looks like it's an alien space ship with a glass roof and miles of leather options.
For me:
If you could only have one car- a 570S is a good combo car but is definitely compromised compared to a GT3 (which is also compromised compared to a Turbo S or RS). The doors make some people uncomfortable although the LWB seats are unbearable for some Porsche Driver's.
If you have a main car, and want more power- it makes sense to get a 650S because it is definitely faster. That being said, the 570 is nicer ergonomically although the 650 rides better and performs better.
As some have said the 570S is more of a canyon carved/ long distance driver vs a Gt3 or RS. The suspension on the RS/ GT3 is not as compliant and not as smooth. Also the rear steering in the GT3/RS leaves a weird aftertaste on corner entry.
The steering in the 570S is superior, but the car only really "works it's magic" when you have ESC OFF. So, for track days, the sensation of car control is better in the 570S than any GT3 or RS- it is lively and direct. but only if you go TCS/ ESC off in 570.
I have said this multiple times but the 991 RS is not the "best car ever" for me. The RS 4.0 is second place to the 675LT in my rankings. Taking nothing away from the car- it's incredible but the LT has 170-199 more HP and weighs 200+ lbs less than a GT3/RS.
McLaren's on track require a different driving style for ultimate lap times vs the Porsches. You have to brake less, scrub speed a little more on entry and sustain a longer relatively high minimum speed. Porsches basically mash brakes into a tight pivot and power out and McLarens are more of a nimble threading maneuver. It's not better one way, just different.
Since I have the LT and P1 I'd rather have the 570GT vs the S, it fits what I will use it for better. I also just traded in my RS on an R- hopefully the R makes me forget, but I know the LT spider will destroy everything else performance and noise wise. Just wish it had a better gauge cluster.
12-18-2016, 05:35 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
i have tracked the 650s quite a bit i do agree about the different driving dynamic than a rear engine p-car
brake feel was still very poor in the 650s (no difference in this respect between steel and ceramics) and modulation was difficult... i do hope this has been improved in the newest mclarens... from street driving the 570s i would say i did not feel much improvement -- hard pedal, wooden feeling, no bite then a lot of bite quickly
brake feel was still very poor in the 650s (no difference in this respect between steel and ceramics) and modulation was difficult... i do hope this has been improved in the newest mclarens... from street driving the 570s i would say i did not feel much improvement -- hard pedal, wooden feeling, no bite then a lot of bite quickly
12-18-2016, 10:03 PM
#54
Race Director
^ Test drove the 570 S 4 weeks ago and the modulation was poot. Did not like the brakes. It was a big gripe for me.
Porsche really spoils you with their brakes
Porsche really spoils you with their brakes
12-19-2016, 10:01 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
I was checking out the used market for the 570S. Looks like 2016's are listed for $10-15k off MSRP (non west coast). Will be interesting to see how far they drop
01-16-2017, 01:27 AM
#56
are the 12c systems totally different on the 570s. i hear weird parts that cost extreme $$ to replace, like 3k battery, or hydraulic systems all linked together with rack and pinion. I guess the suspension would be different on the 570s but the 650s would be similar? I would be afraid of the costs to fix one thing that is linked to 3 other things. 30k repairs, i guess you have to prep for those types of things if the technology is so closely linked to the entire system.
01-16-2017, 07:26 AM
#57
Offered a new 570s for 20k off this weekend just at SuperCar show in Palm Beach. I can imagine they'd go much further for serious buyer. Crazy depreciation. We drove 570s on track at PBIR few months ago and my thoughts were: power was crazy with some lag, brakes seemed nowhere near gt3/RS, but car seemed very special compared to Porsches. Entry was much better than 650 I have been in. They wouldn't let us go into full TC off mode. Handling was far different than P-cars. I'd buy with way before 991 Turbo but never before RS. Probably have to go to 675 level to pry Rs from me. And at that point I'm in a 488 Speciale.
01-16-2017, 09:28 AM
#58
Rennlist Member
Offered a new 570s for 20k off this weekend just at SuperCar show in Palm Beach. I can imagine they'd go much further for serious buyer. Crazy depreciation. We drove 570s on track at PBIR few months ago and my thoughts were: power was crazy with some lag, brakes seemed nowhere near gt3/RS, but car seemed very special compared to Porsches. Entry was much better than 650 I have been in. They wouldn't let us go into full TC off mode. Handling was far different than P-cars. I'd buy with way before 991 Turbo but never before RS. Probably have to go to 675 level to pry Rs from me. And at that point I'm in a 488 Speciale.
01-16-2017, 10:06 AM
#60
Rennlist Member
Never driven McLaren but from everything I read and hear its a joy on the street and a mixed bag on track.
I don't like weird doors.
The other day I sat in a 570, I think they look beautiful. This one had a bunch of crap on it so sticker at $250K. $50K more then a nice RS, I guess you could hunt down a stripper and it would be fine value.
The fit and finish on the one I sat in was not great. Not terrible but some stuff I would not accept at delivery.
I'm not limber enough to get in and out, at 6'4 my knees where in the dash and I'm not certain that I would fit with a helmet on.
Enough dealers here but I still never see one at the track and when I did the early ones had problems. Its a better Cars and Coffee car if you're not too tall.
I don't like weird doors.
The other day I sat in a 570, I think they look beautiful. This one had a bunch of crap on it so sticker at $250K. $50K more then a nice RS, I guess you could hunt down a stripper and it would be fine value.
The fit and finish on the one I sat in was not great. Not terrible but some stuff I would not accept at delivery.
I'm not limber enough to get in and out, at 6'4 my knees where in the dash and I'm not certain that I would fit with a helmet on.
Enough dealers here but I still never see one at the track and when I did the early ones had problems. Its a better Cars and Coffee car if you're not too tall.