Ispeed

I just installed the 928 Int all aluminum radiator with a little help from a friend. I just wanted to post some honest feedback for others who need a radiator.

Instead of the obvious choice of just buying a new OEM Behr 928 radiator, I figured I could do one better with the alum unit from 928 Int. I was assured by Mark A himself that the drain screw and everything else was in the correct locations and the rad was an exact duplicate of the stock rad.
It is made by C&R who make tons of racing radiators for Nascar and lots of other people, and that would mean that it is strong and well made. It certainly looks impressive, nice welds everywhere and looking strong. It is thicker than the oem, which makes some of the installation more difficult.

Installation would prove that like many aftermarket parts, the fit requires a lot of tweaking and fiddling to get it in there and to get the fan shroud and oil cooler lines mounted. Everything about it is slightly different than oem, and you have to be patient and attentive to detail all through the install.

I hope it has better cooling abilities than the oem radiator, because the fit is really kind of average. I have more appreciation for the stock radiator now, how there is just enough room to get 2 wrenches on the upper oil fitting, and the room you have to slide the fan shroud into place. The shroud has to come out now and then checking belt tension, and it should be more difficult with the new radiator.

I am most certainly not trying to bash the new piece, and I will always give utmost respect to Mark A (and Dave Roberts, and many others!!!!!!!!!!) but I wanted to provide some feedback on a somewhat new product. I am also no newbie to aftermarket/race parts that are harder to fit- I have 20+ years of experience racing motocross and being my own wrench.
I do wish that the new radiator was made as an EXACT duplicate of the oem in all the measurements (thickness of the end tanks, location of the oil cooler fittings to the mm, fit on the rubber bumpers, fit of the fan shroud, etc) because now after spending like 4 or 5 hours doing the install I have more understanding of why all those little things are important. Serviceability of our cars is EXTREMELY important because we are always working on them.

It is winter here, so no driving reports with an idea on cooling ability, but with all the grief I have had with my previous radiator drooling from the end tank seals- if this new radiator leaks I am going to chop the fffing thing out of the car with a sawzall and just go mental with a baseball bat on the whole car and then have a 928 bonfire. I'm serious. Serenity now...............

edit: maybe I am drinking too much coffee in the mornings?
p.s. is Mark A running this radiator or the oem in his race car?????

Marine Blue

Good post Carl, I know the honesty and true description is very much appreciated. I wish I knew you were doing this, I need to get more hands on and would have helped (as much as I can)

I think you need to lay off the coffee for the rest of the day!

borland

Thicker than the factory part? That's not good.

Sorry for your grief. I would have sent it back and ordered one from Porsche.

Anyone price a stock radiator from Sunset Porsche?

BC

When he says thicker, he means it is DEEPER - from front to back. Therefore it has MORE cooling capacity.

This is not a bad thing.

ShawnSmith

Curious: Is the aluminum unit significantly lighter than oem, and thus taking weight off the nose? Or does increased coolant capacity dwarf any savings in weight of radiator itself?

Shark Attack

get used to this... as Porsche continues to forget about our cars and parts become hard to find we are going to have to "make due". Im just glad we have people like the supplier/maker of this part to help keep us going!

Thanks for the feedback, it is a good heads up on what to expect on a replacement when needed

Joe '87 S4

Great post and information. I need a new radiator but I'll have a shop install it. If it took you 4-5 hours I'm wondering if I should just go with an OEM since I'm assuming the OEM is more expensive but the price difference with installation would probably be a wash if the OEM is easier to install.

Big AL in VA

Changing the radiator is easy when using a factory replacement. I changed mine in less than 30 minutes. It took longer to put the fluid in and burp the radiator than changing the radiator itself. I joked with the guys at work saying "I finally found something easy to remove on the car", the radiator.

I purchased a used radiator from 928 international and had no problems with it. They told me it was cleaned and pressure tested. I would recommend original over third party in this situation.

Big AL in VA
84 928S2 Euro twin distributor monster with large valve cut outs in the pistons,
85 exhaust manifolds, X-pipe, rear muffler bypass.

worf928

Unsurprisingly, I was the friend that helped Carl with the radiator installation. Below, after some general comments, is a listing of what we needed to do to make the radiator fit properly.

General Comments:

- The 928 International all-aluminum radiator is a better piece than the Devek radiator. The drain plug is in the factory-correct location. The fitting for the relief hose uses the Porsche part and can therefore use the Porsche hose.

- It has the same issue as the Devek unit in that it is deeper than the Behr. There's a lot less clearance for the single-piece fan shroud. Thus fan shroud removal on an '87+ requires removal of the upper radiator hose with the consequent extra time for hose R&R, coolant system top-off, static idle test with leak check and burping.

- The fitting/installation IHO would probably be much easier on a pre-S4 with the two-piece fan shroud.

- The fitting/installation IMO would probably be much easier on any post-89 with the under-radiator oil cooler and thus, no left-side oil cooler lines to hook-up to the radiator.

- The fitting/installation IMO would probably be a bit more involved on an '87-'89 auto because of the ATF cooler lines on the right side.

- And not having an air pump hose in the way helps too.

- YMMV. Clearances on the front can vary enough from car to car that some of what we needed to do might not be needed on another car. We're talking about 1/4s and 1/8s of inches.

Fitting items:

1) We trimmed the anterior edges of the lower rubber supports to allow the deeper side tanks to seat properly.

2) The mid-tank brackets for the two-piece fan shroud needed to be removed. (This step is in the directions.)

3) The side-cooler fittings are retained via a tabbed retaining collar and sealed with RTV Copper. We needed to trim one tab from each collar to allow the fan shroud to get as close as possible to the posterior face of the radiator.

4) The exact rotational orientation of the upper oil cooler line where it turns into the side-cooler fitting is critical. With the fan shroud further back towards the block there's no extra room. When the cooler line was tightened the first time it was pressing against the shroud with sufficient force to keep the left-side fan from turning.

5) Since the radiator is deeper, the placement of the side-cooler fittings is, as a result, further back towards to the block. The oil cooler hoses are usually baked into shape and very stiff. It might be very difficult to thread old crusty hoses onto the fittings. Luckily, Carl's oil hoses are brand new and just 'bendy' enough. Still, we needed to tilt the top of the radiator towards the rear to get the right angle to allow the lower oil cooler line to turn-in without cross-threading.

6) The tabs on the top of the radiator that accept the speed nuts for the fan shroud bolts needed to be trimmed by about 1/4" to allow the hood to close.

EDIT:
7) We also trimmed away a teeny bit of the car's sheet metal around the lower bumpers and at the very top where the very edge of the face of the side tanks meets the sheet metal. We did this to ensure that no metal was touching welds. We also replaced the foam rubber on the posterior face of the sheet metal where the front face of the side tanks rest.

EDIT again:
8) I guessed at the torque for the screw fittings for the side coolers. I felt the crush rings crushing and wasn't close to the spec-book torque yet. So, better safe and leaking, than sorry and busted.

Andre Hedrick

This is fantastic feedback! I hope Mark A. can use it to improve their product offering!

worf928

The OEM Behr radiator can be installed from start-to-finish including a warm-up test and burping in about two hours.

Having seen, many times, how thoroughly a shop can screw up 928s with Porsche/OEM parts let alone performance parts, there are few shops I'd trust to install the all-aluminum radiator. It isn't hard to do, but, as you can see from the list above, there's a lot of fitting and trimming required in order to not end up with a busted fan shroud, snapped fan blades, and a bent hood.

Any meticulous **** retentive 928 Soup **** can do the all-aluminum radiator install correctly. Few shops employ such an individual though. You aren't very close to Greg Brown either

worf928

After fitting the 928 Intl unit I have to wonder if some of the 'early' failures of the Devek units were due to improper fitting during installation. Sheet metal rubbing on welds. The rubber bumpers not seated and the radiator 'riding' on them.

I would suspect that any changes that make the fitting easier would likely be reflected in reduced warranty exposure.

FlyingDog

I don't see anything above that needs improvement. All of the issues seem to be with it having a larger (better, more efficient) core, and it being a combined solution for 78-86, 87-89, and 90-95 cars.

Dave just needs to get a 16V car to understand this.

Tony

Nice report!
I dont have this radiator, just the stock unit, but over time having gotten sick of removing cooler hoses on either side (87s4 auto) i actaully cut part of the plastic shroud away that shields the tip of the blades. There are pics on here somewhere. Once the shorud is in place it isnt going to move and the stock bolting location gives plenty of clearance. I have the shroud in my car out and on the floor in about 10 minutes and i dont have to remove any cooler lines....thus no undue stress on the side tanks. 2 bolts on top, then those little bastard razor sharp clips that hold the fan electrical wiring in place and up and out it comes. Makes life alot easier when messing with the belts and front of the car.

worf928

Yup. If the unit was 3/8" to 5/8" less deep and about 1/4" to 3/8" shorter, most, if not all, of the fitment items would disappear.

Whatever makes you happy.

The only 'combined solution' items, that I know of, are the two side coolers and the tabs for the two-piece fan shroud. Neither of those items were a problem. Removal of the tabs was nicely described in the directions. 'Extra' coolers seem a very minimal compromise towards the goal of keeping the unit cost down.

My head's full. No room for L-Jet, double-disc clutches, or uncomputerized engine management systems...