NickT

Won't trade my C&R in :-)

worf928

I just re-read every reply in this thread. And you...
... need to drink less coffee on Mondays. I don't see any complaining in the replies.

FlyingDog

I think you were complaining about having to learn about dual disk clutches. (Your other complaints don't matter.)

V8 Man

Thanx Jim, good to know :-) I already have that item on my "engine mod.wish list"

worf928

Did you forget a smiley face? Or did my listing of items to attend to during the installation come across as complaining?

Peter F

I dont read this post in a negative and complaining way and really do appreciate the heads up on what to consider on installing this cooler.
I'm convinced that if my original radiator starts to leak this is the way to go since the product seems superior to the original unit.

Thanks for providing some intelligent and detailed input on what is requierd on installation, I have a hard time to understand why this can not be shared on a great forum like Rennlist truly is.

/Peter

worf928

So, then by 'remaining silent' on the topic of the installation steps, people thus not 'discouraged', buy the product and might - in some cases - fail to install it correctly and then a month or a year later end up with a busted radiator. Or they pay a shop to install it then later have problems. They or the shop then blame the product and place Mark in an unenviable situation where he either has to eat a new radiator or risk driving a customer away?

My point here is: I am not posting to 'take up [my/our] installation issues' publicly. In fact, I thought Carl's opening post was not as carefully constructed as it could have been and I posted in an attempt to address my personal concern that his post would indeed be considered by some to be a public airing of frustration when I knew for a fact that he did not intend it to be.

I tried to relate the steps we took to make as certain as we could that the radiator was correctly installed. I did this with the hope that any lingering negative perceptions of the product would be dispelled - since it wasn't brain surgery - and that future installations of the C&R radiator would be better illuminated, less time consuming, and have less potential post-installation risk. As far as I can see, I did not cast aspersions on the product or attempt to re-engineer it (with the exception of noting to Matt that all of the fitment differences vis-a-vis the Behr unit are a result of the C&R's larger size.) I did not suggest, and did not intended to suggest indirectly, that I considered the product poorly designed and in need of remedial effort as a result of our installation experience. I am not sheepish about privately conveying to a vendor my observations in that regard.

My opinion of Mark and his company is not so low that I would assume that he is not completely aware of the differences between the C&R unit and the OEM Behr. Quite the contrary. My opinion of 928 International is high. The C&R radiator corrects at least two complaints I have with the Devek radiator. I think Mark has done an excellent job of making a replacement for the Behr unit while at the same time providing what his customers want: more cooling capacity. Thermodynamics, having not recently changed, along with the dimensions of the engine bay, pretty much guarantees that a replacement radiator will have to be deeper if it is to have added cooling capacity.

As I tried to write in previous posts, I do not have any complaints with the radiator given the purposes that it is obviously intended to serve. It is a well-designed and well-constructed unit. Since, however, it is not intended to be a faithful duplication of the OEM Behr unit, it falls into the category of "aftermarket performance parts" (APP for short.)

I have not encountered a non-trivial APP that did not require some additional care during installation. In some cases use of an APP brings with it compromises in ease of later service. It is the nature of such parts. Failure to exercise that additional care during installation or merrily assuming that nothing other than the part will change after installation is almost always a road to a poor experience.

Many folks here know the above about performance parts. On the other hand it is also the case that many don't. I cannot fathom how it serves the 928 community in general and Mark and the C&R radiator in particular to not discuss installation experiences in an attempt to generate 'best known methods' for each variation of 928. By gathering our experiences we make it easier for folks to install the next time and we might even help Mark out by lowering his warranty exposure due to installations performed without sufficient care. In cases where folks pay a shop to install the C&R radiator they are at least informed that it should take extra time over the Behr and why. Moreover, those folks are in a better position to judge the final result of their shop's work.

I am happy to edit my first post so as to make the tone as 'informational' as possible since that was my intent.

FlyingDog

I was refering to the 16V off topic discussion. Your comments about the radiator didn't seem like complaining.

928drvr86.5

I hope you're not referring to the picture i posted and thinking that i was complaining. My intention was certainly not to complain but to make others aware of what they may have to do when installing this great product. I just wish i would have known ahead of time so i could have used my Dremel cut off wheel on the excess material before it was installed in the car. Just trying to help.

I don't think anyone here will be discouraged from buying this radiator by what has been posted on this thread. Are we not here to help each other?

ODSharkBytes

I felt the OP was trying to be realistic about the radiator install. In my mind, the information is very helpful in putting aside adequate time for this planned upgrade. It did not appear, to me, to be negative in any way. After-market is typically never a drop-in replacement, and it is nice to view some of the pitfalls prior to the actual change-out.

ShawnSmith

I gotta say I found this thread very informative.

It's ok to discuss the trade offs of various components that are available for our cars. We now know with pretty good certainty that the Al radiator is better in many respects - more cooling capacity, doesn't tend to leak, etc. and at the same time it's a bit heavier and slightly more work to install. That's good info.

Marine Blue

I would agree that posts like this are essential to keeping our cars running properly. Personally I'm not a big fan of aftermarket components due to bad experiences in the past however if the feedback is good and function is as good or better than factory without the need to hack at the car then why not. Case in point is Carls all metal ball cup replacement.

It's good to have options and it's good to learn from others experiences. The vendors will be fine and the more information available the better off we all are.

Tampa 928s

One thing comes to mind with my super charger there is no room for a larger radiator. This is very helpful if I need to replace mine so the post was not view as negative just informative.

H2

I appreciate the heads up these guys gave and the detailed list of things to look out for in a radiator install and how they were dealt with by someone else. Knowing this information upfront, I'll know what I may expect, how to get around issues if needed, and not be frustrated. A solid aluminum radiator sounds very appealing to me.

I also appreciated the less expensive "how to" on repairing the Behr radiator. I'm the one who would have broken all the tabs! One or the other radiator update is something quite a few of us may have to do someday. This info is good stuff. I don't see it as complaining at all. I think we all know that 928 International gives top notch service and invaluable advice as well. Thanks, guys.

Keep those "how to's" coming. Heaven knows I need all the help I can get as I'm no good at reinventing wheels 'n stuff.

H2

Bill Ball

Ben: Good thread.