whiz944

(Shrug) I'm a former mid-westerner. Had lots of fun in my mis-spent youth practicing skids in the snow and ice - sometimes unintentionally... EVs have their issues in the winter, but so do ICE cars. Lead-acid batteries and thick oil in sub-zero weather that might not even allow an ICE to turn over. Transmissions that don't shift right. Waiting 5-10 minutes for the engine to warm up enough to get heat and defrost the windows. Etc. So I do try to keep my mid-western family and friends in mind when talking about EVs.

In a talk that Marc Tarpenning (one of the founders of Tesla) gave back in 2014, he talked about how they tuned the ABS system for winter conditions in the Roadster. They sent a car to some test track in Sweden that "everyone uses". Normally he claimed it takes months to get ICE cars dialed in because of the latency in control they have over the drive train, committee meetings, re-design, and re-test. But with EV, since every aspect of motor control is done almost instantaneously by computer, his engineers were able to get the system dialed in within a few days.

As for road trips, I've done a lot of them - including coast to coast. But more typically between the SF Bay Area and Seattle. The difference between my EV times and ICE times are not very significant. (The Tesla Supercharger network rocks.)

I don't claim that 100% of all use cases of ICE can be replaced with electric today. Certainly not all market segments are covered yet. But time marches on. Lessons are being learned, and solutions keep on coming. It is an exciting time!

3-Pedals

Oklahoma has stretches of highways where you go 50 miles without a single gas stop, house, anything civilized. Imagine driving there in January with your Tesla and something going wrong that requires you to pull over and use more battery than you anticipated bricking your car. Yes same could happen with ICE and you run out of gas. Difference is a trucker can help by giving you gas or taking you to a gas stop and come back with a canister 3 hours later. You cant even tow the EV once its “dead” dead.

CodyBigdog

I routinely travel to-from Chicago and DC area…as well as to-from Boston and DC area.

Never had a charging issue, with regards to charger waits or lack of availability (I use EA).

But, I disagree with you that charging doesn’t increase the total trip time, compared to when I made the same trips in my 992. BUT, that added wait time while charging is put to good use (ie, bathroom breaks, dog breaks, food, or just to stretch the legs). The days of being able to go for long trips without stopping are over. But that’s not a bad thing, IMO.

ipse dixit

No, I don't think you can. Nor should you.

That's what airplanes are for .

whiz944

Back in college days, I used to drive between the mid-west and Arizona a lot. This was before some of todays Interstates existed. Of particular interest to me was the stretch of US 54 from Wichita KS, through Oklahoma, to Tucumcari NM. A short stretch across Route 66. Then between Santa Rosa NM and Las Cruces NM. So I've been watching that corridor for years contemplating how to drive an EV through it. It has been possible for a long time if one doesn't mind using slower L2 charging or even stopping at RV parks for power. Within the last year or two there are now DC fast charging stations along the route.

Another fun one is the Al-Can highway between Alaska and the lower 48. Sort of a bucket list drive for me, though I doubt if I'll ever do it. It was first done in a Model S in 2014. He did it almost totally using power from RV parks and the occasional welding shop. Over the last few years enough DC fast charging has been installed in BC and the Yukon that it is almost possible to avoid slow L1/L2 charging at all. Looking at plugshare, there are several new DCFC stations under construction that will close the final gaps in the next few months.

The pioneering days are coming to a close. Now it is more an effort of increasing reliability - so that you, or more importantly your wife and kids, can depend on chargers actually working upon arrival, and capacity - to handle the ever increasing number of EVs without long wait times.

petee_c

From a Cdn, non Taycan Perspective.

I picked up a 2023 BMW i4M50 back in March 2023. 10+ months into ownership and my 1st winter is about 75% complete. I have put just over 22K km / 14K miles on the car. I live in Southern Ontario Canada, about the same latitude as Milwaukee.

You get a reduction in range/efficiency in winter. You also get a hit if you switch to winter tires, I went with a square 18" tire setup for winter. I believe they are 235 width.

This winter has been relatively mild, but we have good stretches where it's below freezing, and the ground can be snow covered for weeks - This was the case in January.

Here are my efficiencies so far.... you will have to translate to freedom units.

Feb 24 (so far) 21.7 kWh/100km
Jan 24 - 23.3kWh/100km
Dec 23 - 23.8 kWh/100km (including 900mile trip to Mont Tremblant to ski)
Nov 23 - 22.2 kWh/100km
Oct 23 - 19.2 kWh/100km (including a 1500 mile trip down to Pigeon Forge)
Sept 23 - 17.4kWh/100km
Aug 23 - 17.7 kWh/100km
July 23 - 18.2 kWh/100km
Jun 23 - 17.9 kWh/100km
May 23 - 18.7kWh/100km
Apr 23 - 20kWh/100km

In reality, I only charge my car twice a week unless taking a trip somewhere. For my winter charging, instead of charging for 3-4hrs at a time, it ends up being 4-5hrs.... If my day trips are over 150 miles, I will make an effort to stay with the flow of traffic in the center lane, and avoid hogging the left lane like most other BMW drivers.

CodyBigdog

After the km to miles conversion, your summer numbers are not too dissimilar to my own. My winter numbers, in a more mild Maryland are better. But in addition to winter versus summer, a lot depends on the average speed. For example, I can almost get the same winter efficiency, that I get in the Summer….if, in the winter, my average speed reflects speeds on back roads, or between 30-40 mph. At highway speeds of >70 mph, efficiency takes a hit…just like driving in the winter tayes a hit. With the worst efficiencies coming at highway speeds, in the Winter.

Drifting

Im glad that charging on your routes doesn’t seem to be a bother for you. That is not the experience of many.

1- is your EV a Taycan? Nice that your specific short drives between three of the largest cities has reliable EA chargers.
It’s just not that way in most of the US. Using many of the other EA chargers in the US is a $hitshow as I’m sure you’re read here and elsewhere.

2- How long does it realistically take to charge your Taycan from 15-80% in the winter months?

10 minutes to stretch your legs and human/dog pee vs 25-30 minutes every charging stop in the winter are very different things on a long trip during the colder months for many people.

d00d

If I did my math right, your December number is 2.61 miles/kWh.
My worst in a Taycan with wide 21" all seasons is 2.8 miles/kWh (18 F and 51 MPH avg).

CodyBigdog

What can I say…maybe I’m lucky? 😎

But even with a quarter of the EA charging stations that were found not to be working, in a 2022 U of Cal study of about 700 charging ports in the greater Bay Area…while not great…doesn’t in anyway infer that my experience was an anomaly, that I had no issues.

According to the data, I stand about a 75% chance of finding a working charging port when I drive up. So, about 3 out of every 4 charging ports are functional. Not ideal, but I can live with that. Oh, and my experiences has been, at least on the routes I travel, these charging stations are not heavily used, like they might be in California, where EV adoption is much higher. Unless I’m charging near a major city, I’m lucky to see one other EV charging when I am.



I deal in actual data, not what people on a forum say….and the data shows that about 25% of EA’s charging ports, in 2022, were non-functional. As i said, that’s not a good number, but it has been good enough for me. And as I said before, the great equalizer has been that none of the stations I visit have been full, or over subscribed…i.e., no waiting line.

Not an issue for me. Maybe it is for you?

Drifting

you didn’t answer my questions.

1 do you own a Taycan ?
2 how long does it take to charge your car from 15% to 80% in the winter at an average EA station?

CodyBigdog

Let’s get to your point…which, if I understand you correctly……on a long trip, I will spend much more time charging my EV, than i would filling up my ICE car. Is that about it?

Do you think you are telling me something I, or all EV owners, don’t already know? 😂

On my ~ 825 mile trip to Chicago, I spend about 2.5 hrs charging over 2 days (I don’t drive all 850 miles in one day…don’t need to, and don’t want to). Start out the trip, at either end, charging to 100% from home (my home and my son’s home…while sleeping). Usually get some re-charging at the hotel, while asleep. But here’s the catch - of that 2.5 hours, approximately 1.5 hours is spent eating, getting coffee/snacks, going to the bathroom, walking my dog, etc. So it’s not all wasted time.

In contrast, if i drive the 992, I still spend about 1.5 hrs (over 2 days) doing the same things, ie, eating, walking the doing, going to the bathroom, etc….so being able to fill up quicker than re-charging, really only saves me about an hour. Yawn. Not a deal breaker. But if it is for you, then don;’t get an EV. Won’t bother me. I’m not on some crusade, like you seem to be? 🤔

Drifting

I’m not on a crusade. I own an EV, as well as ICE vehicles. I am open to their pros and cons and looking to understand daily usability of other EV brands.

I am also able to answer direct questions, but you seem to lack that capability.

CodyBigdog

As soon as you started to infer that my experiences, with charging on my trip, were not relevant to my answer, then you had already made up your mind as to what the answer is.

Have a nice day. We’re done.

You got my answers.

Zhao

What I have learned on this forum is there is always some lunatic from California (usually from the bay area) that is convinced their little bubble world is the only world that matters and is completely oblivious, yet at the same time is full of distain, for anyone who lives differently and/or disagrees with their Salvador Dali view of the world. The lunatic you are talking to is quite possibly the guy with his head farthest up his own butt on this forum. He's someone who gave a grade 5 level understanding copy and paste answer in response to something that flew so far over his head he couldn't understand what was being said, and then promptly declared victory. I'm not sure if you can have a real conversation with a person like that.



My Tesla model 3 numbers i don't have so detailed for by dates but I know by temps

-40c I average about 45.0kwh/100km (besides range, EV's ftw in that temp for commuter driving, ICE cars are only ftw for trips in that temp)
-20c seems about 27.0kwh/100km
0c i'd peg around 18.0kwh/100km
15-20c seems ideal at probably about 13-14kwh/100km (didn't get much time at that temp to see a true average)

This is all with having it parked in a heated garage though.

8300km since sept, I've used 1418kw, or average about 17.1kwh/100km. My average speed is generally about 55-60kph, so a fair bit of freeway/highway use.

That cost me about $170 for power + maybe another 150+ for our BS delivery and infrastructure fees where I am. Gas would have cost me about $1000 in that time for my pretty fuel efficient bmw.