USED EV SALES WAY UP, SURPASS NEW
#16
I think taycans are doing pretty good for resale, even the panamera isn't bad compared to a lot of the competition. Anyone ever look at a 7 series bmw or S class merc resale?
But i do think we're closing in on a slowdown of EV adoption. The fanatics already have made the jump long ago. The current crop of people jumping on board EVs really don't care about them and keeping them and rebuying them hinges on EVs working for their life style. A lot of people now buying them lack true believer fanatic status to stick with EVs despite their faults so I am not surprised the used market is seeing high turnover.
But i do think we're closing in on a slowdown of EV adoption. The fanatics already have made the jump long ago. The current crop of people jumping on board EVs really don't care about them and keeping them and rebuying them hinges on EVs working for their life style. A lot of people now buying them lack true believer fanatic status to stick with EVs despite their faults so I am not surprised the used market is seeing high turnover.
#17
Hoping battery modules will last at least 8-10 years...
Used Taycan prices are basically neck and neck with used Maserati prices.
Like most EVs nowadays, the Taycan has become a disposable lease specials. No one (figuratively speaking) buys these things. Lease, return, rinse and repeat.
Yes, even with the stupid rates PFS is offering on leases, it still makes sense -- finnancially and otherwise -- to lease a Taycan. You don't want to be stuck with one of these thins long-term and having to unload on the open market. The depreciation will be tougher to take than the lease rates.
Like most EVs nowadays, the Taycan has become a disposable lease specials. No one (figuratively speaking) buys these things. Lease, return, rinse and repeat.
Yes, even with the stupid rates PFS is offering on leases, it still makes sense -- finnancially and otherwise -- to lease a Taycan. You don't want to be stuck with one of these thins long-term and having to unload on the open market. The depreciation will be tougher to take than the lease rates.
I'm hoping for the best since I usually keep my Porsche's forever unless they get in a bad accident which has happened on at least one occasion. The big question is going to be... how long will these battery modules last? Worst case if they will only replace an entire module and all 13 modules eventually need to be replaced then we are talking at least $30K if you replace all the modules at once. Pretty steep price to get back full range but in 10 years maybe a 2033 Taycan will cost $200K+ so $30K would be a deal! My Porsche dealer did say it is likely all EVs will become disposable vehicles because of high battery replacement costs and doesn't recommend keeping any EV past the warranty. I guess I'm going to find out... Hopefully it won't be too painful after warranty. My cars are like my children so they are given whatever they need to stay perfect. I hope my Taycan doesn't make me wish I adopted a different child...
I'm anticipating many years of joy before that painful, out of warranty, "you need all your battery modules replaced" conversation with my service advisor sometime after Jan/2030.
Last edited by Option7; 11-19-2023 at 08:21 AM.
#18
Taycan long term value...
Exactly right. It's so bizarre that people are surprised that a $150k sedan doesn't hold its value, particularly in the case of the Taycan when they have the direct comparison of the Panamera to see how this story plays out. It's also odd that people are so fixated on range and future battery tech being the main driver of this. I'm pretty confident a Taycan will hold its value better than the ultra-long-range Lucid Air, or a Model S, regardless of the range disparity. People aren't buying Taycans to do cross-country journeys, any more than they are buying any other car to do so. It's just not the main driver of the purchase for buyers of these kinds of luxury products.
A friend of mine who owns a limo service and puts 100K miles a year on his cars just replaces all 5 battery packs on two of his Model S sedans at a $36K each. That's actually not bad for all the miles he puts on these cars but the build quality is inferior to a Porsche so after 200K to 300K miles I couldn't imagine these Tesla's being anything but a rattling collection of EV auto parts. I'll be surprised if I put more than 70K miles on my Taycan by 2030 so my battery modules will die from old age not overuse.
#19
Option 7: I think if you minimise DCFC charging and only routinely charge to 80% SoC at home on your L2 charger, your Taycan battery should last a very long time and maintain most of it’s capacity absent anything failing in it.
Enjoy the car!
Enjoy the car!
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Option7 (11-19-2023)
#20
I was told not to use the 120v charging cord in the garage except in an emergency but I'm wondering if that's better than DC fast charging in the interim for the next few months until I can get an electrician to run 220v into my detached garage. I was thinking of setting the 120v charger timer to just charge for no more than 8 hours each night to add a few miles to top up to 80% since the car usually sits for several days a week especially when I'm out of town.
I really appreciate your guidance since this my first foray into EVs.
I'll likely buy a traditional ICE Porsche in 2024 which I'll use for longer trips and only use the Taycan around town for errands, going to dinner and worst case to LA & back for entertainment.
The Taycan is really the perfect car for us. It's the only 4 door sports car she was excited by. The Panamera was just a little too big for her at 5'2", 110lbs... Every 4 door sports sedan from Mercedes & BMW was too boxy. Taycan was an easy sell to get her onboard!
Last edited by Option7; 11-19-2023 at 04:08 PM.
#21
I am after a 2022 Taycan 4S CT. Prices 2nd hand are great. I mostly wonder what if they come up with some new battery tech to hold more charge or charge significantly faster to make it impossible to resell. Right now the 3y leases are ending and it’s full of Porsche dealers selling them for like 80k eur which is inly fair depreciation for a four door. Covid hype is kinda gone.
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Option7 (11-22-2023)
#22
Just trying to find out the worst case cost for a new set of batteries after warranty
I am after a 2022 Taycan 4S CT. Prices 2nd hand are great. I mostly wonder what if they come up with some new battery tech to hold more charge or charge significantly faster to make it impossible to resell. Right now the 3y leases are ending and it’s full of Porsche dealers selling them for like 80k eur which is inly fair depreciation for a four door. Covid hype is kinda gone.
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GT3 Mike (11-23-2023)
#23
Not quite sure I prefer replacing 3-4 modules. They charge a lot each time if not under warranty and replacing these takes time. We got couple of Taycan Turbo S cars in the office which had their batteries replaced. They were first models, preordered the moment the model was announced. Battery repair took 6months. Now few years later I am sure this process is improved but still it’s not a quick swap for sure. I prefer a full battery failure and a new one while under warranty for sure
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Option7 (11-22-2023)
#24
Replacing one, several or all battery modules...
Not quite sure I prefer replacing 3-4 modules. They charge a lot each time if not under warranty and replacing these takes time. We got couple of Taycan Turbo S cars in the office which had their batteries replaced. They were first models, preordered the moment the model was announced. Battery repair took 6months. Now few years later I am sure this process is improved but still it’s not a quick swap for sure. I prefer a full battery failure and a new one while under warranty for sure
I'm more worried about burning down my house from a battery failure due to age, overcharging or an accident which compromises the integrity of the modules.
I'm still learning about my Taycan and EVs in general so your knowledge & insights are extremely valuable and appreciated. Thank you.
#25
The big question that will impact Taycan values is what the cost will be after 8 years or 100K miles to replace the entire set of battery modules. If the cost is much more than an ICE motor replacement at $35K to $40K then I would expect resale value of the Taycan to drop like a rock. A Tesla model S costs $35K to replace all 5 battery packs so if Porsche charges more than $35K for every 100K miles compared to Tesla charging $35K for 150K miles then Porsche EVs will be looked at as disposable vehicles. If on the other hand the Porsche battery design lasts far longer than a Tesla battery overall so worst case you only have to replace 1 or 2 modules (out of 13) that don't last 10-15 years at a cost of around $7K per module then Porsche EVs would actually still be worth it to replace several modules to get another 8+ years. I hope this ends up being the case. Keeping my fingers crossed...
If that number is any less than 20%, then that metric is largely irrelevant.
#26
Taycan values after 8 years?
I will just have to wait and see. For now, my Taycan is an expensive but beautiful golf cart to drive around town, to the beach & shopping but my backup will always be an ICE Porsche!
#27
Thanks for the tips! My wife & I love the car (which she mostly drives) since I'm flying just about every week for business. It should be very easy for us to only charge up to 80% and minimize the DC fast charging to extend the life of the batteries since we won't put more than 150 miles per week on the car on average.
I was told not to use the 120v charging cord in the garage except in an emergency but I'm wondering if that's better than DC fast charging in the interim for the next few months until I can get an electrician to run 220v into my detached garage. I was thinking of setting the 120v charger timer to just charge for no more than 8 hours each night to add a few miles to top up to 80% since the car usually sits for several days a week especially when I'm out of town.
I really appreciate your guidance since this my first foray into EVs.
I'll likely buy a traditional ICE Porsche in 2024 which I'll use for longer trips and only use the Taycan around town for errands, going to dinner and worst case to LA & back for entertainment.
The Taycan is really the perfect car for us. It's the only 4 door sports car she was excited by. The Panamera was just a little too big for her at 5'2", 110lbs... Every 4 door sports sedan from Mercedes & BMW was too boxy. Taycan was an easy sell to get her onboard!
I was told not to use the 120v charging cord in the garage except in an emergency but I'm wondering if that's better than DC fast charging in the interim for the next few months until I can get an electrician to run 220v into my detached garage. I was thinking of setting the 120v charger timer to just charge for no more than 8 hours each night to add a few miles to top up to 80% since the car usually sits for several days a week especially when I'm out of town.
I really appreciate your guidance since this my first foray into EVs.
I'll likely buy a traditional ICE Porsche in 2024 which I'll use for longer trips and only use the Taycan around town for errands, going to dinner and worst case to LA & back for entertainment.
The Taycan is really the perfect car for us. It's the only 4 door sports car she was excited by. The Panamera was just a little too big for her at 5'2", 110lbs... Every 4 door sports sedan from Mercedes & BMW was too boxy. Taycan was an easy sell to get her onboard!
#28
120v charging
As long as you have a 20A outlet in your garage with the proper 20A receptacle I can't imagine why it would be bad for the Taycan battery. After all it is a Porsche branded charger. I'm an electrical engineer so I don't get why you can't keep the vehicle plugged in with a timer set to no more than 12 hours each night to top off your battery to 80-85% max which is another bit of advice given by Porsche to extend the life of the batteries. Hopefully I will find an actual electrical engineer at Porsche who can tell me why you should never charge more than 12 hours at 120V. Until then I will take their advice and only use it in emergency to get enough charge to safely make it to the charging station.
It may also have something to do with the 12 volt battery which has its charge maintained by the main battery when the main battery is at 50% or greater. I recently tested this out to see how/if the 12v battery lost any charge when the car sat in the garage for two weeks while we were on vacation. The battery stayed at exactly SOC where we left it 2 weeks earlier but I've found on several blogs that if you keep the 120V charger connected for days & days it will keep the electronics in the car "awake" and using power from the 12v battery that runs the "brains" of the vehicle. I'd bet Porsche doesn't want you bringing the vehicle home at less than 50% SOC and going away for weeks because the software likely does not maintain the 12v battery charge once the main battery is below 50% as they say you should never do for long periods of storage. I'm also told that it is bad to leave the vehicle fully charged to 90-100% because this will also reduce the life time of the main battery as well.
I will update the community if I get any new information about 120V charging and long term battery life and battery replacement costs. I can live within the new parameters Porsche has set after the Taycan and their other EV's have provided a learning experience to optimize their batteries for life time as well as safety.
I surely don't want to see my house get burned down because I decided not to follow Porsche guidelines on charging. They would know best.
#29
The big question that will impact Taycan values is what the cost will be after 8 years or 100K miles to replace the entire set of battery modules. If the cost is much more than an ICE motor replacement at $35K to $40K then I would expect resale value of the Taycan to drop like a rock. A Tesla model S costs $35K to replace all 5 battery packs so if Porsche charges more than $35K for every 100K miles compared to Tesla charging $35K for 150K miles then Porsche EVs will be looked at as disposable vehicles. If on the other hand the Porsche battery design lasts far longer than a Tesla battery overall so worst case you only have to replace 1 or 2 modules (out of 13) that don't last 10-15 years at a cost of around $7K per module then Porsche EVs would actually still be worth it to replace several modules to get another 8+ years. I hope this ends up being the case. Keeping my fingers crossed...
it’s likely not cost effective to replace the battery pack on a 12+ year old EV, any more than it is to rebuild the engine on a 12 year old BMW sedan. This whole concern is kinda ridiculous. If you can’t afford a new car every 12+ years, then you’re buying too expensive a car, and certainly not a Porsche.
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#30
I haven't got a good answer yet. I would think it would be considered a trickle charger but Porsche has stated in their literature that 120V charging should only be done in an emergency and never for more than 12 hours.
As long as you have a 20A outlet in your garage with the proper 20A receptacle I can't imagine why it would be bad for the Taycan battery. After all it is a Porsche branded charger. I'm an electrical engineer so I don't get why you can't keep the vehicle plugged in with a timer set to no more than 12 hours each night to top off your battery to 80-85% max which is another bit of advice given by Porsche to extend the life of the batteries. Hopefully I will find an actual electrical engineer at Porsche who can tell me why you should never charge more than 12 hours at 120V. Until then I will take their advice and only use it in emergency to get enough charge to safely make it to the charging station.
It may also have something to do with the 12 volt battery which has its charge maintained by the main battery when the main battery is at 50% or greater. I recently tested this out to see how/if the 12v battery lost any charge when the car sat in the garage for two weeks while we were on vacation. The battery stayed at exactly SOC where we left it 2 weeks earlier but I've found on several blogs that if you keep the 120V charger connected for days & days it will keep the electronics in the car "awake" and using power from the 12v battery that runs the "brains" of the vehicle. I'd bet Porsche doesn't want you bringing the vehicle home at less than 50% SOC and going away for weeks because the software likely does not maintain the 12v battery charge once the main battery is below 50% as they say you should never do for long periods of storage. I'm also told that it is bad to leave the vehicle fully charged to 90-100% because this will also reduce the life time of the main battery as well.
I will update the community if I get any new information about 120V charging and long term battery life and battery replacement costs. I can live within the new parameters Porsche has set after the Taycan and their other EV's have provided a learning experience to optimize their batteries for life time as well as safety.
I surely don't want to see my house get burned down because I decided not to follow Porsche guidelines on charging. They would know best.
As long as you have a 20A outlet in your garage with the proper 20A receptacle I can't imagine why it would be bad for the Taycan battery. After all it is a Porsche branded charger. I'm an electrical engineer so I don't get why you can't keep the vehicle plugged in with a timer set to no more than 12 hours each night to top off your battery to 80-85% max which is another bit of advice given by Porsche to extend the life of the batteries. Hopefully I will find an actual electrical engineer at Porsche who can tell me why you should never charge more than 12 hours at 120V. Until then I will take their advice and only use it in emergency to get enough charge to safely make it to the charging station.
It may also have something to do with the 12 volt battery which has its charge maintained by the main battery when the main battery is at 50% or greater. I recently tested this out to see how/if the 12v battery lost any charge when the car sat in the garage for two weeks while we were on vacation. The battery stayed at exactly SOC where we left it 2 weeks earlier but I've found on several blogs that if you keep the 120V charger connected for days & days it will keep the electronics in the car "awake" and using power from the 12v battery that runs the "brains" of the vehicle. I'd bet Porsche doesn't want you bringing the vehicle home at less than 50% SOC and going away for weeks because the software likely does not maintain the 12v battery charge once the main battery is below 50% as they say you should never do for long periods of storage. I'm also told that it is bad to leave the vehicle fully charged to 90-100% because this will also reduce the life time of the main battery as well.
I will update the community if I get any new information about 120V charging and long term battery life and battery replacement costs. I can live within the new parameters Porsche has set after the Taycan and their other EV's have provided a learning experience to optimize their batteries for life time as well as safety.
I surely don't want to see my house get burned down because I decided not to follow Porsche guidelines on charging. They would know best.