Yes, and for the time being, exclusive to the Chinese and non-US markets.

Please don’t confuse European (and other) companies that manufacture in China, but export to the US….with Chinese owned companies. Can’t think of any Chinese owned EV companies selling their cars in the US. Can you name a few? try spending some time in Europe and you would known what I am talking about.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ap-chinese-evs

“EV variety is easy to find outside the US. Where American drivers now have about 50 electric cars to choose from, Europe’s array is almost double that, and China’s nearly triple. With that variety come more small and midsize options, and more cars with price tags that won’t break the bank. Ask any US automaker and they’ll say this is mainly a profitability problem. To pay for investments in electrification, carmakers are first focusing on trucks, SUVs and other premium models. That same tension is at the center of the United Auto Workers strike, which is pitting factory workers looking to preserve pay and benefits in an EV world against carmakers who say they can’t go electric, meet union demands and stay in the black.

”China, meanwhile, has become a global powerhouse in electric cars: It’s expected to account for about 60% of the world’s 14.1 million new passenger EV sales this year, according to BloombergNEF. Many of those options are small and affordable; some are downright cheap. Take BYD’s Atto 3, a small, front-wheel-drive crossover with one of the most advanced batteries in the game. The Atto 3 costs just $20,000 in China and starts at $38,000 in the UK and Europe. But not a single Atto 3 is headed for the US market.”

“The China dynamic is more recent. In 2018, just as China was starting to crank out a wave of compact EVs, US president Donald Trump implemented tariffs on about $370 billion of imports from the country each year, including a 27.5% tariff on cars made in China. That policy persists under the Biden administration. In Europe, by contrast, the tariff on Chinese cars is 9% — low enough for those machines to at least trickle into the market.”


So, while the US tariffs help protect US car companies, it ultimately hurts the US consumer. I see both sides of the argument, but the fact remains, the US consumer is shut out of less expensive Chinese EV’s….as well as having a smaller variety of EV;’s from which to chose from.

 

Oh, and since this Porsche Taycan site seems to have a LOT of Tesla cult member lurking about, 😱 let me just say that Musk’s #1 concern (with regards to the future success of Tesla) is competition from Chinese EV companies. In his own words. And he would be 100% correct in being alarmed.

 

Easy. Polestar and Volvo - owned by Geely.

Wifey and I spent about three weeks in Europe back in July/August. Mostly in France (really enjoy the Alsace region!), but were in a few other countries as well. While I did see EVs, they weren't nearly as prevalent as I was expecting. Saw some Teslas. There were a few others we don't see in the U.S. Notably Renault Zoe and ID.3s. The only Chinese I saw were a couple of London Taxis in Paris, and maybe a few BYDs. Was really hoping I'd see a MG (also Chinese owned nowadays), but didn't.

 

It’s complicated. The Geely holding group is Chinese, and has the majority share, but the companies you mentioned are based in Europe, including the design/research and development sections. Furthermore, Volvo has manufacturing plants in Sweden, China and the US. Polestar has manufacturing in the US, China and S. Korea.

But to add further confusion of who owns what:

https://www.media.volvocars.com/glob...les-operations

“Volvo Cars has signed an agreement with its parent Geely Holding to acquire Geely Holding’s stake in the companies’ joint ventures in China, with the aim of taking full ownership of its car manufacturing plants and sales operations in the country.The acquisition of an additional 50 per cent of the shares in Daqing Volvo Car Manufacturing Co., Ltd and Shanghai Volvo Car Research and Development Co., Ltd, will further strengthen Volvo Cars’ position in China, its largest market, and maximize exposure to one of the fastest growing regions globally.

Although the two joint venture companies are already fully included in Volvo Car Group’s financial statements, Volvo Cars’ share of their net income and equity will increase following the transaction.

“With this agreement, Volvo Cars will become the first major non-Chinese automaker with full control over its Chinese operations,” said Håkan Samuelsson, chief executive of Volvo Cars.”

Polestar is owned/subsidiary of Volvo.

Spend more time, and travel to other countries in Europe, and you will see a lot of Chinese EV’s. The Renault Dacia-Spring, or those from Peugeot. MG, owned by SAIC Motors is the biggest Chinese car company in all of Europe. But France has recently slashed cash incentives to Chinese cars…I suspect that is in response to fears that the Chinese brands may dominate the local EV market: https://europe.autonews.com/environm...nese-car-sales

 

Here is a great article on the fears that some countries have over China’s looming dominance of the e-car sector…and current/future EU backlash:

https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/c...electric-cars/

“EU’S E-CAR EDGINESSSTOP AND SEARCH: China wants to dominate the world’s e-car supply chains, and Europe doesn’t like the sound of it. The European Union, which was once touted as the biggest overseas market for the fast-developing Chinese e-cars, turned on the warning light last week, with European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen — lobbied heavily by the French government — vowing to launch an anti-subsidy investigation. As if the message would get lost, she announced the move at the high-profile annual State of the European Union speech, winning her a round of applause from European Parliament members, the majority of whom are much more critical of Beijing than their capitals are.

EU WARNING: Ahead of a meeting of all 27 EU leaders, the EU is warning the bloc risks getting exposed to dependency on Chinese cars like the painful experience with regard to Russian energy.

“The EU has a strong industry in the intermediate and assembly phases of the latter (where it holds more than 50% of the global market share), but it relies heavily on China when it comes to lithium-ion batteries and fuel cells that are, for the time being, crucial for the decarbonisation of mobility,” an internal report presented by the Spanish-held rotating presidency of the EU Council noted. “Without implementing strong measures, the European energy ecosystem could have a dependency on China by 2030 of a different nature, but with a similar severity, from the one it had on Russia before the invasion of Ukraine.” Gulp.

FRANCE TAKES ACTION: Most Asian exports are likely to be excluded from France’s new electric vehicle purchase subsidy scheme as of next year, as Paris looks to clamp down on EVs from China.

Paris is set to issue a decree Tuesday that spells out new new criteria for awarding the subsidy; the list of eligible vehicles will be published in mid-December, a French government official told re

 

^ seems about right. I can't see Chinese EV's coming here anytime soon. People said oh, expect to see chinese ICE cars here by now (or before now) and we didn't. The fact is our market isn't easy to penetrate and basically they need to design completely different cars for our market unless they're a luxury brand. Japan found this out long ago, and so did Korea. The Japanese lineup for Toyota or Honda is very very different than their lineup for North America.

 

It’s called a 25% tariff (for the US situation). For the EU, it’s reduced, or eliminated cash incentives. I believe the EU tariff on Chinese cars imported, is a more reasonable 9%.

What people? People on forums like this? Unless “people” show facts and data, it means nothing. Tariffs speak louder than what people say.

It benefits car manufacturers, but reduces choice to the consumer.

 

Tariffs? No, I doubt that factors in very highly on why they aren't here.

And its news articles and car journalists that have been saying you'll see them soon. I've occasionally read that claim dating back about 10 years and you probably have too.

 

Proof? Studies? Data? Anything? Don’t care what you “doubt”. But thanks for playing.

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/w...cles-53473383#

Why Americans Can’t Buy Cheap Chinese Electric Vehicles

U.S. has built a fortress to keep out Chinese EVs as millions sell around the world

https://esgclarity.com/what-us-china...tric-vehicles/

https://www.csis.org/analysis/us-chi...-concern-rules


The tariff on Chinese EV’s, imported into the US, is 25%. That tax is either passed on to the consumer, or reduces the profit margin of the company. So, in a highly competitive market, why would a Chinese EV company import to a country where profits would be smaller, or because of a higher price, have reduced sales figures….when they can ship those cars to more profitable markets.

 

Isn't "The Chinese are coming" not as easy as saying a wholly owned Chinese company (e.g., Geely) selling Geely branded cars at Geely dealerships on Mainstreet USA?

Porsche AG, in Porsche Zwischenholding GmbH is 50.1% Which in turn is 31% shareholder in Volkswagen AG.
In turn 17.0% Qatar Holding LLC and 25.9% Foreign institutional investors own Volkswagen AGI. Of these that what % is Geely?

It is all "funny money." One is welcomed to argue about foreign companies...I won't.

 

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" Mark Twain/Benjamin Disraeli.

 

https://www.media.volvocars.com/glob...les-operations

“Volvo Cars has signed an agreement with its parent Geely Holding to acquire Geely Holding’s stake in the companies’ joint ventures in China, with the aim of taking full ownership of its car manufacturing plants and sales operations in the country.The acquisition of an additional 50 per cent of the shares in Daqing Volvo Car Manufacturing Co., Ltd and Shanghai Volvo Car Research and Development Co., Ltd, will further strengthen Volvo Cars’ position in China, its largest market, and maximize exposure to one of the fastest growing regions globally.

Although the two joint venture companies are already fully included in Volvo Car Group’s financial statements, Volvo Cars’ share of their net income and equity will increase following the transaction.

“With this agreement, Volvo Cars will become the first major non-Chinese automaker with full control over its Chinese operations,” said Håkan Samuelsson, chief executive of Volvo Cars.”

Polestar is owned/subsidiary of Volvo.

 

When it comes to Porsche and VAG, we could also discuss the complicated relationship between the Piech and Porsche families and their ever evolving control over each others auto businesses...

 

Thx for playing? Good one.

I'm not sure you read your articles but one of them doesn't even talk about tariffs. You do realize there are vehicles already coming from China right? You do realize there are US vehicles going to China right? Both are subject to tariffs and the flow didn't stop because of tariffs.

Maybe if you weren't spending all your time convincing yourself you have the answer to everything you'd learn a thing or 2 and realize there are bigger barriers to entry than tariffs lol. You won't believe anything I say so I won't waste my energy trying to explain it to a wall, but maybe you want to ask yourself some questions since you have all the answers. Why didn't they enter pre-tariffs? Why don't they enter Canada? Why don't they sell cars produced in Mexico from their existing plants? What challenges did other manufacturers have entering the market.

You still sure it's definitely tariffs?

 

I did, and yes, the 3rd article, I believe, did not specifically talk about tariffs, it talked about a number of issues. I included it to show you that i am aware of other import/export issue involved with trying to navigate the import/export “jungle”. But I’m no expert, just as I’m sure you are not, either.

Yes, there are Chinese made vehicles, made for companies such as Volvo, that come to the US. Similarly, there are US made vehicles from BMW and Mercedes, that are exported to China. Although I don’t believe they are subject to the full 25% tariff. There are ways around them. For example:

https://www.autonews.com/manufacturi...-made-vehicles

Tariffs usually don’t completely stop the flow of commerce, but they do slow it, and often passed along to the consumer, with higher prices. That’s the main point. Oh, and tariffs on higher priced cars, like Volvo, BMW and Mercedes, have usually have larger profit margins, can more easily absorb these tax/tariffs.. Whereas the cheaper cars I am talking about, in the $20k-$30K already have razor thin profit margins, so much of the tax would get passed on to the consumer, thus, defeating the purpose of importing them. Then, as mentioned above, these cheaper Chinese EV’s would have to conform to US safety and other US regulations, reducing their profit margin even more.


Don’t need to “convince myself” of anything. i know what I read. Still waiting for some proof from you, that tariffs are not at issue? Anything?

Never said that tariffs were the only reason why Chinese companies don’t export their cars to the US. But it is a major reason. So is having those cars, if they were to come into the US, meet US safety standards, and a host of other regulatory and legal requirements….all things that would drive up costs.

Oh, and if you don’t believe that tariffs are a major impediment to commerce, well, maybe you should do some more reading.



It’s a major reason…you haven’t proved anything. Let’s see your data that shows that tarrifs have no, or minimal impact on commerce? Give it your best shot. I’ll wait.